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Orioles promote 1 Coach, hire second

Legend_Of_Joey

By Legend_Of_Joey
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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

If the owners and players agreed and it’s in the rules it’s not cheating anymore than how the Super 2 benefits the player.

They agree so much the player's union has filed grievances over the issue.

There is supposed to be a measure of good faith present in the process that some teams respect and some don't.

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Tony-OH
Tony-OH

That's a fair piece and really highlights that Elias is doing things outside of the normal box. Isn't that what we wanted? I realize until we start to win at the major league level these will all be l

Legend_Of_Joey
Legend_Of_Joey
Tony-OH
Tony-OH

I think what this shows is the complete change from "ex-major league players" as coaches to guys who understand the new analytics, Blast motion, Rapsodo, video work, etc. We saw it in the minor league

Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They agree so much the player's union has filed grievances over the issue.

There is supposed to be a measure of good faith present in the process that some teams respect and some don't.

Yeah and we are in negotiations….so they will either agree to change it or they will agree that it’s okay.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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16 hours ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I read this but I am torn on it.  For one, I do agree that it would make sense to have one experienced hitting coach and one of these guys.  But, what if another team was trying to poach our guy?  What if we were trying to poach the guy from the Twins and really wanted him because he aligned with our vision?  What if the only way to bring these two guys, who were valued highly by the organization it seems, was to make them “co-coaches?”  In my mind, you do it.  

Needless to say, Dan also doesn’t mention the reverse of this…….how our team was stuck in the stone ages for years in the front office and player development, where guys were hired and kept their jobs by focusing on their past as part of the “Oriole Way” as opposed to them actually being good at their job.  There is a reason why we had developed only one TORP between Mussina and John Means (referring to Erik Bedard here) and it’s not because we refused to invest in pitching.  We failed to develop them.  I favor the new analytics approach and hope that this direction works out for us.  

Dan, like a lot of guys in the veteran press, has a lot of contacts with the old school guys who hate all of this. The old school scouts and coaches hate everything happening because they've been outsourced by technology and the young guys who understand it all. 

When it comes to scouting, I do think you need a mix and that all good scouts should embrace technology to help them with their own eyes. When it comes to hitting? 

It remains to be seen but here's what I do know, the Orioles organization has not exactly been pushing out plethora of quality major league hitters over the last 30 years and the Orioles hitters have generally been very undisciplined.

Sometimes you gotta give something else a chance. 

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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35 minutes ago, Frobby said:

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/11/how-will-fuller-and-borgschulte-mesh-on-orioles-coaching-staff.html

That's a fair piece and really highlights that Elias is doing things outside of the normal box. Isn't that what we wanted? I realize until we start to win at the major league level these will all be looked upon as strange, but I'm in the camp of, "Why not?"

We've had ex players as coaches for a long time and we've been bad for a long time. The game has changed with the technology available to analyze it. If you want to maximize that technology, you need people who understand a it, who embrace these new technologies and not look at them as a fad.

Again, what does this organization have to lose?

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

 It remains to be seen but here's what I do know, the Orioles organization has not exactly been pushing out plethora of quality major league hitters over the last 30 years and the Orioles hitters have generally been very undisciplined.

Sometimes you gotta give something else a chance. 

Amen.   

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scOtt Hangout Grand Counsel

scOtt

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On 11/16/2021 at 8:43 AM, CarrRun49 said:

Sure. But saying everyone will just fall in line because Adley says so is a different story.  People react to differently to various styles and philosophy. Player A may be a match made in heaven for Mr. Fuller's teachings. Player B may not.  

If you're thinking of a high priced vet not respecting a never was and not buying into "all this newfangled :bs: ", the only "high priced vet" we have left is Trey. And he'll get along with anyone. We'll get a veteran cheap temp fix SS and C and it doesn't matter if they get along.

ALL the rest are young guys, moldable guys, who probably already embrace the analytics. I don't think it will be a problem.

 

If you read Roch's column today (Wednesday) it sounds like they are both extremely into the analytics, and kind of from two different directions. They'll probably each gravitate toward their particular specialties and (I think...) blend well together.

 

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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6 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

How stupid.  Following the lead of the Giants, Dodgers and Astros.  What idiots.  Why would you possibly want to follow the lead of those schlubs?

Yeah man. Connolly's article is the thing that's shortsighted, which is some fun irony. Didn't we want the O's to catch up to the rest of baseball and get into some of these new trends? Maybe it doesn't work, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try if they believe in what they're doing and in the guys they're hiring. "Oh no what will 30 yr old Trey Mancini think??" What are you even talking about, Dan? 

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SilverRocket Major Leaguer

SilverRocket

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On 11/16/2021 at 7:12 AM, CarrRun49 said:

https://theathletic.com/2958360/2021/11/16/connolly-orioles-hiring-of-two-hitting-coaches-with-no-big-league-experience-seems-shortsighted/ Behind a paywall but great look at this hire

He just doesn't mention the Giants at all. It'd be one thing if this had never been done before, but it has and with huge success.

From Kapler's wikipedia: "In 2020, Kapler hired three hitting coaches who were young enough to still be players, the Giants veteran hitters raved about how well prepared they were going into games with the new approach, Kapler platooned whenever he thought he could get an advantage, and the resulting turnaround with the Giants hitters was significant."

I wonder how much this is more of a thing for veteran hitters, who I'd guess are only majorly revamping their swing in the offseason. On a day-to-day basis, it might be more about how to approach matchups.

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