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So, what are we going to talk about now?

Frobby

By Frobby
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Moose Milligan
Moose Milligan

We can listen to CoC prattle on and on about the CBA like he's been doing for a year and a half. I typically hate the offseason, too.  But this is going to be a really bad, boring, long one.

Frobby
Frobby

There’s been some discussion of this.   The warehouse angles away from home plate, so that 439 down the foul line increases very quickly as balls go left of there.   The ground there is 25 feet higher

SteveA
SteveA

I don't know if judging him by that record does him justice.   Look at the jobs he has had:    -- He took over a Yankee team that had had 3 straight losing seasons for the first time since the 19

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I not saying Buck was wholly responsible.  I just don't think he was somehow how jobbed by how his tenure here ended.  I don't think he deserves a fifth shot when other guys haven't had one.  He's got a career record of 1551-1517 as a manger.  That's solid but not exceptional.

I don't know if judging him by that record does him justice.   Look at the jobs he has had:

   -- He took over a Yankee team that had had 3 straight losing seasons for the first time since the 1960s and just the second time in 80 years

   -- He took over an expansion team

   -- He took over a team that had had 3 straight losing seasons 

   -- He took over a team in the midst of its 12th straight losing season

To up up a > .500 record despite that shows something.   And until the last season he was over 100 games over .500 for his career.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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56 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I don't know if judging him by that record does him justice.   Look at the jobs he has had:

   -- He took over a Yankee team that had had 3 straight losing seasons for the first time since the 1960s and just the second time in 80 years

   -- He took over an expansion team

   -- He took over a team that had had 3 straight losing seasons 

   -- He took over a team in the midst of its 12th straight losing season

To up up a > .500 record despite that shows something.   And until the last season he was over 100 games over .500 for his career.

It's 20 seasons worth of data!

He finished with a .506 winning record.

Twenty seasons!

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

He gave you some context and you just ignored it instead of acknowledging he made a fair point.

I don't think he made a fair point.

My counterpoint is that the sample size is plenty large enough to withstand excuses.

How many guys manage twenty years and don't have some bad situations they have to deal with?

He certainly had owners that were willing to spend for instance.

I'd say the argument that he took over an expansion team is weakened by that expansion team signing Randy Johnson and other players.  Take a look at the 1999- 2000 Diamondback rosters, does that look like an expansion franchise to you?

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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12 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think he made a fair point.

My counterpoint is that the sample size is plenty large enough to withstand excuses.

How many guys manage twenty years and don't have some bad situations they have to deal with?

He certainly had owners that were willing to spend for instance.

I'd say the argument that he took over an expansion team is weakened by that expansion team signing Randy Johnson and other players.  Take a look at the 1999- 2000 Diamondback rosters, does that look like an expansion franchise to you?

I think a fair assessment of Buck’s record is he’s been good at turning around losing franchises, but hasn’t been able to get them to the mountaintop.    I’d say .506 given the teams he started with is above average performance.   It’s not HOF material.

I don’t think anyone is saying “it’s crazy that Buck doesn’t have a major league job right now.”   But he’s certainly qualified, and some of us will be happy for him if the Mets job comes his way.   That’s all.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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3 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think a fair assessment of Buck’s record is he’s been good at turning around losing franchises, but hasn’t been able to get them to the mountaintop.    I’d say .506 given the teams he started with is above average performance.   It’s not HOF material.

I don’t think anyone is saying “it’s crazy that Buck doesn’t have a major league job right now.”   But he’s certainly qualified, and some of us will be happy for him if the Mets job comes his way.   That’s all.

I think Buck is at an age right now where it would be reasonable for people to wonder if he wanted to manage again, that’s probably why we aren’t hearing that comment being made. 
 

If he gets a WS ring, is he a hall of fame manager? He’d have the same amount as Earl. 

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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The only real issue I have with Buck is he told us all he wasn't, and I quote, "beholden to the save rule". But then he was when it mattered most.

But other than that, he took a rag tag squad of spare parts smartly assembled by Duquette, and he built a clubhouse that loved playing for him and played above its head fairly regularly. You can't do that by just being any old manager. He's good. But he's also flawed. As evidenced by the weird save rule hangups and by butting heads with Duquette, allegedly. 

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Just Regular Hangout Grand Counsel

Just Regular

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It's Frobby Acquisition Anniversary.

At the pace of 1965, was the Frank Robinson acquisition actually a 4-team trade also involving the Angels and Phillies?

Poking around the first two transactions, the Angels one seems to have been like trading a Trey Mancini type for a Jo Adell type, though Simpson never came to anything.   And the Phillies one a bat and a young reliever for an established reliever with a few good years under his belt.   I like that Knowles went 2-14 when he had his 3.3 WAR season in 1970.   Line-up wise, it seems to have opened 1B to let Boog come in from the outfield Mountcastle-style.

 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think Buck is at an age right now where it would be reasonable for people to wonder if he wanted to manage again, that’s probably why we aren’t hearing that comment being made. 
 

If he gets a WS ring, is he a hall of fame manager? He’d have the same amount as Earl. 

I don’t think so.   Earl had only one ring, but three WS appearances, two other division titles, 14 straight winning seasons and a rather gaudy .583 career winning percentage (94+ wins per season average).    

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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I think we've truly reached the dead zone now. The owners and players haven't even sat down since the lockout and the holidays are looming. There's nothing on the horizon until probably January. MLBTR is all KBO signing AAA guys and rehashed stories of pre-lockout signings. A trickle of minor league deals is all we're going to get. 

Might be time to hibernate. 

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

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In the upcoming draft it’s looking like we’ll have 3 picks in the top 40, and 6 picks the top 100ish. 
 

With that being said, there’s a lot of drama with Kumar Rocker, and he didn’t sign with the Mets last year. If he fell to our 2nd pick which should be somewhere in the late 20s/early 30s, would Elias draft him?

He may not be the ace everyone, or himself, thinks he is, but he could be a solid mid-to-back rotation arm, with high upside bullpen leverage potential as well. 

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scOtt Hangout Grand Counsel

scOtt

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On 12/8/2021 at 4:37 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

Buck also had good coaches. Our pitching tanked after I believed Wiley? left the team. Also, Bobby Dickerson really helped Machado and Schoop. Having Hardy helped too. 
 

I’d love for us to convince Hardy in the future to be our MLB infield coach. No matter who the manager is. 

This!

There's a whole series of videos on MASNOrioles youboob channel. Bobby working with several different infielders. ML knowledge just gushing out of him about tiny little subtleties that make you better and faster.

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