Should players be guaranteed a career in baseball?

[wildcard]

This stuff wreaks of entitlement to  me.

I am reading this article about how players over 30 are get cut out of the game.  The charts are nice.  Its written well until I get to the examples.

They are crying about Adam Plutko not being able to find a job in the majors at 30.   They say he is  a AAAA player but somehow I am supposed  to feel sorry for the guy.   He had to go to Korea to pitch.

Adam Plutko is not pitching in the majors because he could not get major league hitters out.  Period.  He picked the industry he is working in.  He knows that out of 50 draft choice signed by the his club that probably 3 or 4 will play 5 years in the majors. He is 30.  He can go do something else if he is not good enough to play.  Its a free country.

Next Ed Rosario.  He's 30.  And  a free agent.  A fairly average left fielder that can't hit lefties.   He has made  21M so far in his MLB career.  But somehow I am supposed to feel this guy is being wronged .   What?

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2222664/with-a-labor-war-coming-the-mlbpa-should-start-prioritizing-the-99

I came out of college and sold mainframe computers in the Baltimore area.   My firm had 10 salesmen.  5 made a pretty good living at it.  2 were in training trying to learn the business.  Their changes of being successful was probably less than 20%.  The other 3 had talked there way into a chance.   It was a revolving door for those people.  No safety net. Make it or find something else to do.

My 2nd job was in Washington as a salesman to Government.   The day I walked in the door as a experienced salesman they told  me I had 18 months to show what I  could do.  I was not alone.  In the 20 years I was there I saw many, many people go find something else to do.  A few succeeded. 

Whether  someone starts a software company or a restaurant or does a hundred other jobs, they have to prove their worth to succeed.   To stay.

Why should baseball players be any different?

[Moose Milligan]

Playing baseball and selling mainframe computers are different things.  Selling to the government and baseball are two different things.  

@wildcardit's nothing against you when I say this but I can't stand it when people try to compare every day jobs (I work one, too) to professional athletes.  On many levels, it's just not the same.

That said, to answer your question, I don't think they should be guaranteed a job anywhere.  

A deeper dive into the article you posted:

Quote

A former scout who now works as a college coach knows a number of players in that cohort, players such as pitcher Adam Plutko, who is 30, has three years and 30 days of service time, and faces an uncertain future.

"He's the poster child for a 4A player," the coach said. "I think his fear is coming to reality. He got sent down with Baltimore, the worst team in baseball. He's talented enough to help them, but part of it is their young guys being developed.

"(Players like Plutko) need a new career (after baseball). ... It just seems like I have a bunch of friends who got a cup of coffee and are done."

I spoke with former MLB relief pitcher Rob Scahill last year. He had a common MLB career, finishing with two years and 162 days of service time. He estimated a thrifty player who never reached free agency could save 25% of their pay after living expenses and taxes and agent fees, if applicable. A player such as Scahill would then retire with about $156,000 saved, not accounting for the negative cash-flow experience of climbing up through the minor leagues.

"Most grind out on a split career between Triple-A and the majors unless you're a contract guy," Scahill said. "For the vast majority of players, every dollar counts for the rest of their lives.

"Your average major-league player needs a job after baseball."

I don't disagree with any of that, except that Plutko was talented enough to help this team.  But the summary that the average major leaguer does need a job after baseball, I do agree with.

Quote

Not every player who steps on a field necessarily deserves to retire wealthy, and players and owners agree the market and talent largely ought to dictate career earnings, but perhaps the middle class should be more of a priority.

Even a short major-league career still requires years toiling in the minors, years removed from getting an education and learning real-world skills.

"When they're done, they haven't done anything academically since they were 20, 21 years old, if they played in college," the scout-turned-coach said. "It's basically like if the team doesn't hire them to do something, they are starting over."

While the average salary exceeds $4 million in 2019, the median dollars earned was $558,400, meaning half made more and half made less.

Another agent shared a different example. He noted the case of the Minnesota Twins non-tendering outfielder Eddie Rosario last December. Rosario was 29 and coming off a season in which he posted an above-average wRC+ (111). He hit 32 home runs in 2019. Rosario's salary was $7.5 million in his second year of arbitration in 2020 (although he made a fraction of that because of the pandemic-shortened season).

I also agree with this, not every player who steps on a field deserves to retire wealthy.  It's a meritocracy, those who are good enough to land a big contract are able to do so.  Someone like Plutko is not.

But I'm not seeing anything in this article, @wildcard, that's pondering if a player should be "guaranteed a career in baseball."  I find the title of your thread to be a bit misleading from that perspective.  

That said, I agree with your argument in response to a stance that no one else has made; that players shouldn't be guaranteed a career in baseball.

I will say this: as someone who's worked as a recruiter for several years, anyone who has been a professional athlete has a leg up on anyone else competing for an entry level role.  If I see anything about someone playing a professional sport on their resume, I'm calling them.  There will be a lot of companies out there who'll at least interview someone based on the fact that they played professional sports.  

But during this whole labor thing, it seems like people are somehow thinking that the players are asking the general public to feel sorry for them which I don't really understand.  It seems to be a bit of a straw man. Ive yet to see any player anywhere looking for sympathy despite claims to the contrary. 

 

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Playing baseball and selling mainframe computers are different things.  Selling to the government and baseball are two different things.  

@wildcardit's nothing against you when I say this but I can't stand it when people try to compare every day jobs (I work one, too) to professional athletes.  On many levels, it's just not the same.

That said, to answer your question, I don't think they should be guaranteed a job anywhere.  

A deeper dive into the article you posted:

I don't disagree with any of that, except that Plutko was talented enough to help this team.  But the summary that the average major leaguer does need a job after baseball, I do agree with.

I also agree with this, not every player who steps on a field deserves to retire wealthy.  It's a meritocracy, those who are good enough to land a big contract are able to do so.  Someone like Plutko is not.

But I'm not seeing anything in this article, @wildcard, that's pondering if a player should be "guaranteed a career in baseball."  I find the title of your thread to be a bit misleading from that perspective.  

That said, I agree with your argument in response to a stance that no one else has made; that players shouldn't be guaranteed a career in baseball.

I will say this: as someone who's worked as a recruiter for several years, anyone who has been a professional athlete has a leg up on anyone else competing for an entry level role.  If I see anything about someone playing a professional sport on their resume, I'm calling them.  There will be a lot of companies out there who'll at least interview someone based on the fact that they played professional sports.  

But during this whole labor thing, it seems like people are somehow thinking that the players are asking the general public to feel sorry for them which I don't really understand.  It seems to be a bit of a straw man. Ive yet to see any player anywhere looking for sympathy despite claims to the contrary. 

 

To me the article seemed to say that these two  3O year old players were being wronged.  Making the case that they were entitled to stay in the majors.  Even though Rosario is just a free agent and probably gets signed.

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

To me the article seemed to say that these two  3O year old players were being wronged.  Making the case that they were entitled to stay in the majors.  Even though Rosario is just a free agent and probably gets signed.

 

 

I didn't really get the notion that anyone was being wronged.  It merely said that not all of these guys are retiring rich.  

[wildcard]

42 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I didn't really get the notion that anyone was being wronged.  It merely said that not all of these guys are retiring rich.  

Rosario has made 21M.   That is rich to me.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Rosario has made 21M.   That is rich to me.

I think the point about Rosario is the artificially low salaries of the pre-Arb players means that some guy not as good as him may take his job merely because of the artificially low salary.   You’d like to have a system where the best players play.   

[Moose Milligan]

18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Rosario has made 21M.   That is rich to me.

 

In 5 posts you've gone from wondering if players should be guaranteed a career in baseball and then pointing out a Rosario is rich while ignoring the Plutko saga.

What's the point of this thread, WC?

[wildcard]

57 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think the point about Rosario is the artificially low salaries of the pre-Arb players means that some guy not as good as him may take his job merely because of the artificially low salary.   You’d like to have a system where the best players play.   

Well that is messed up.   Rosario is a 6 year free agent.   That is exactly what the union wants.  Free Agents can sign anywhere for their best deal.  MLBTR is projecting he will sign  2/15m.   What the heck is wrong with that?

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, wildcard said:

Well that is messed up.   Rosario is a 6 year free agent.   That is exactly what the union wants.  Free Agents can sign anywhere for their best deal.  MLBTR is projecting he will sign  2/15m.   What the heck is wrong with that?

Nothing.   I read the part of the story about Rosario too hastily.   They weren’t discussing this year, they were talking about after the 2020 season when the team released him rather than going to Arb 3.   He’d made $4.19 mm and $7.75 mm (prorated to $2.87 mm due to the shortened season) and so he probably was in line for a $10 mm Arb 3 award after a solid 2020 season (.792 OPS, 1.2 rWAR in 60 games).    Instead they released him and he earned $8 mm on the open market.   Frankly, I don’t think the changes being discussed in the CBA will affect those types of decisions.   

[btdart20]

Imagine a league where it's normal for small/mid-market teams to actually have a competitive chance heading into every season... Where the best players available still get a contract because they will help a team win.  The NFL has that courtesy of a salary cap.  

Factions on both sides have torpedoed the game with their short-term view.

[waroriole]

17 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Imagine a league where it's normal for small/mid-market teams to actually have a competitive chance heading into every season... Where the best players available still get a contract because they will help a team win.  The NFL has that courtesy of a salary cap.  

Factions on both sides have torpedoed the game with their short-term view.

It seems that a cap and floor tied to league earnings is the best way for players to ensure they get increasing salaries. Also ensures owners that there won’t be runaway freight train salaries. It works for the NFL and NBA. 

[Aristotelian]

There is nothing stopping players from agreeing to a lifetime contract extension at any point. The more years that they are looking to have guaranteed, the lower the salary they will need to agree to for a team to take that risk. The Adam Jones contract came pretty close to covering his whole career for all intents and purposes but no question he would have done much better going through arbitration and hitting free agency. 

[Frobby]

The thread title here is kind of a straw man, isn’t it?   Absolutely nobody is saying that players should be guaranteed a career in baseball.

I agree with wildcard that Plutko is a fairly bad example to use for anything.  His poor pitching was what kept him from keeping a roster spot.  He got a bunch of chances and couldn’t capitalize on them.  He’s made about $2 mm playing baseball.   

[Sports Guy]

Should anyone’s job be guaranteed?  I don’t really get the point of this thread either.

[Tony-OH]

13 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think the point about Rosario is the artificially low salaries of the pre-Arb players means that some guy not as good as him may take his job merely because of the artificially low salary.   You’d like to have a system where the best players play.   

But then the best players need to play at "market rates". If I can get a guy at $600K who will OPS .750 vs paying a 30-year old $8 million for a .765 OPS, I'm going to go with the $600k guy. 

Anyone who feels sorry for a guy who has made $21 million over his career really needs a reality check. 

I think we all can agree the younger players salaries pre-arb probably needs some adjustments. I like the idea of the top 75-100 valued players getting some kind of automatic bump and top 30, getting a significant bump. 

I'm against any system that forces teams to start overpaying 30-somethings again just because they have to make a floor. 

As much as I respected Adam Jones as a player, it was clear he was done as an effective major league player when he was given away to the Phillies. Pre analytics, Jones would have probably had signed another three year contract worth well over $10 million per year and some team would have had an old, unproductive player that probably would have run out there everyday due to his salary and respect for the player.

I don't want to go back to that. If they want to push for more money for players pre free agency or even better, make free agency an aged based thing that allows players to hit free agency in their prime, then I'm all for that.