MASN refuses to pay for travel costs

[DrungoHazewood]

12 hours ago, seak05 said:

Angelos wasn't even remotely tight fisted when he bought the team, and he clearly loved baseball. He meddled because he loved, not because he didn't care. As he got older and sicker, the money seemed to dry up. It might be his sons, or that he doesn't have the assets anymore, or he's just bitter 

The 1998 Orioles had the highest payroll in baseball, if I recall correctly.  They won 78 games.  That seems to have been an inflection point.  A couple years later Mussina was a free agent and Angelos had gone from "sure, let's sign Alomar, Bonilla, Raffy, Bordick, Erickson, Key, Myers" to "no pitcher is worth five years and that kind of money!"  The late 90s teams had payrolls in the $70M range, the 2011 Orioles were about $80M.  While the Yanks in that same period went from about $65M to $200M.  The '98 Phillies had a $28M payroll, the '11 Phils $172M.  Angelos was as aggressive as anyone in the 90s, but hit some kind of a ceiling just as everyone else spent like crazy.

And that's really only half the story, because Angelos only spent on MLB payroll.  While everyone else was building stuff in the Dominican and spending lavishly on overslot draft picks and comp picks and international signings, the O's spent essentially nothing on any of that.

Our minds like simple answers that aren't always true, but here the simple answer seems to be that the '98 Orioles didn't turn the profit he wanted from his then-large investment, and it colored his future decisions.

[DrungoHazewood]

13 hours ago, Oriole1940 said:

I hope the next owner of the Orioles is a baseball man/men.  Does not guarantee anything, but sure raises the odds from where they are now.   Or at least a lover of baseball/fan.    Not a tight fisted rich man who probably does not even LIKE baseball, much less is a Fan.   

In the world of Premier League Soccer it's sometimes said that the fans never want to see an American ownership group come in because almost all of them want to see the team turn a profit.  If you get a Saudi oil prince or a Russian oligarch or a former Asian despot buy the team they almost always do it for the fame and the vanity and their own egos.  They'll put as much money in the team as they can, buying players at outrageous sums and cooking the books enough to get by any kind of financial fair play regulations (which are kind of comical, they say that you can't spend more on payroll than your revenues.  In baseball most teams spend 40% of revenues on MLB payroll, there are Premier League teams close to 100%*).  In the US they cook the books to make it look like they're losing money to get an upper hand in the victim game with the press, the fans, and the MLBPA.

The Orioles have always been run by the prototypical American businessman who wants his business to turn a profit every year. I don't know that it's realistic to think that'll change if/when the Angeloses sell.

* Of course. OF COURSE my team in the EPL is 20th of 20 on this chart in % revenues spent on payroll.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The 1998 Orioles had the highest payroll in baseball, if I recall correctly.  They won 78 games.  That seems to have been an inflection point.  A couple years later Mussina was a free agent and Angelos had gone from "sure, let's sign Alomar, Bonilla, Raffy, Bordick, Erickson, Key, Myers" to "no pitcher is worth five years and that kind of money!"  The late 90s teams had payrolls in the $70M range, the 2011 Orioles were about $80M.  While the Yanks in that same period went from about $65M to $200M.  The '98 Phillies had a $28M payroll, the '11 Phils $172M.  Angelos was as aggressive as anyone in the 90s, but hit some kind of a ceiling just as everyone else spent like crazy.

And that's really only half the story, because Angelos only spent on MLB payroll.  While everyone else was building stuff in the Dominican and spending lavishly on overslot draft picks and comp picks and international signings, the O's spent essentially nothing on any of that.

Our minds like simple answers that aren't always true, but here the simple answer seems to be that the '98 Orioles didn't turn the profit he wanted from his then-large investment, and it colored his future decisions.

He had several big contracts turn out very poorly in the late 90’s, including Anderson, Erickson and Belle.    I think that made him gun-shy.   

[Yardball85]

23 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Where is the pressure coming from and what will happen if they don’t succumb to the pressure?

The least amount of pressure in pro sports comes from the Orioles.  They embrace losing and they embrace cheapness.  Hell, they have even convinced the fan base that this is ok and the fans actually buy into it.

The media applies zero pressure to them as well.

Agreed.  Along similar lines, I think Roch would have been genuinely upset if the Orioles spent big money on Correa or a big free agent this offseason.  Probably relieved when Correa signed with the Twins. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

58 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He had several big contracts turn out very poorly in the late 90’s, including Anderson, Erickson and Belle.    I think that made him gun-shy.   

Also the O's spent money on Miguel Tejada, Javy Lopez, Sammy Sosa and Raffy in the mid-2000's which didn't translate into winning either. It never usually does when you're relying on high priced veterans without surrounding them with younger cheaper talent. 

[NCRaven]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:39 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

In the world of Premier League Soccer it's sometimes said that the fans never want to see an American ownership group come in because almost all of them want to see the team turn a profit.  If you get a Saudi oil prince or a Russian oligarch or a former Asian despot buy the team they almost always do it for the fame and the vanity and their own egos. 

Just saw this.  So, all we need to do is get some dictator that poisons or beheads his political opponents to buy the Orioles and we'll be set.  You've actually given me another reason to not like Euro soccer.

[Roll Tide]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:06 AM, amdcpus said:

The Angelos boys are no different from dad. Money grubbing scrooges

This …. Just sell the dam team already

[Pushmonkey]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

This …. Just sell the dam team already

Who’s going to buy it??? It’s great for them to sell it but who wants this dumpster fire?

[rm5678]

FYI: Roch announced this morning that he was given approval to travel for the first 2 months of the season. I'm assuming tit will continue past 2 months. Now that he'll be traveling, why not approve the TV broadcasters to travel ASAP?

Edited April 6, 2022 by rm5678

[Going Underground]

26 minutes ago, rm5678 said:

FYI: Roch announced this morning that he was given approval to travel for the first 2 months of the season. I'm assuming tit will continue past 2 months. Now that he'll be traveling, why not approve the TV broadcasters to travel ASAP?

Most do travel.They have to get to Baltimore. 

[Three Run Homer]

4 hours ago, Pushmonkey said:

Who’s going to buy it??? It’s great for them to sell it but who wants this dumpster fire?

I'm sure someone would be willing to pay good money to buy the Orioles.  Camden Yards is still the gold standard for baseball stadiums.  The Orioles can still draw good crowds when they are successful.   The player development system is in much better shape than it was 5 years ago.   

If the current owners can't afford to operate a baseball team at a major league then they should sell, period.  I'm all in favor of focusing on building up the farm system but the neglect of improving the major league product this offseason is just cheap, selfish penny pinching and abusive to the fans.  If MLB had a real commissioner (as opposed to a shill for the owners) then the Angelos family would already be under pressure to spend more or sell the team.  

[Going Underground]

3 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

I'm sure someone would be willing to pay good money to buy the Orioles.  Camden Yards is still the gold standard for baseball stadiums.  The Orioles can still draw good crowds when they are successful.   The player development system is in much better shape than it was 5 years ago.   

If the current owners can't afford to operate a baseball team at a major league then they should sell, period.  I'm all in favor of focusing on building up the farm system but the neglect of improving the major league product this offseason is just cheap, selfish penny pinching and abusive to the fans.  If MLB had a real commissioner (as opposed to a shill for the owners) then the Angelos family would already be under pressure to spend more or sell the team.  

Also if the Orioles ever sign a new lease, they get major stadium improvements to Camden Yards. Have heard it has been a tough negotiation. We shall see what happens with this.Always thought no chance the Orioles would  ever move but if they don't sign by the end of this year ,next year should be interesting. Also if their attendance is still dreadful,not so sure othet owners would be against the move 

[crowmst3k!]

11 hours ago, Pushmonkey said:

Who’s going to buy it??? It’s great for them to sell it but who wants this dumpster fire?

Someone who wants to make truckloads of money in the very lucrative world of professional sports ownership.

[crowmst3k!]

3 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Also if the Orioles ever sign a new lease, they get major stadium improvements to Camden Yards. Have heard it has been a tough negotiation. We shall see what happens with this.Always thought no chance the Orioles would  ever move but if they don't sign by the end of this year ,next year should be interesting. Also if their attendance is still dreadful,not so sure othet owners would be against the move 

I don't think the Orioles would move.  However, it will be telling to see what their attendance is like if/when they reach their window of being competitive.  

Having regularly gone to games during the stretch of 2009-2017, attendance definitely had a major drop following the 2015 riots, even though they were still in their 'window' (missed playoffs in 2015, made them in 2016, missed in 2017, full teardown in 2018).  

Personally, I live in the city, go downtown enough, and I don't really feel threatened or unsafe. The city does have a crime problem and a perception problem, and needs to work harder at lowering the crime stats and make people from outside the city, who currently feel unsafe, feel more confident about going downtown with their families again.  

Not trying to veer off into politics, so I'll correct back into my lane: but whether its perception or reality, more people will return regularly if there is a good product on the field, and people feel safer doing so.  

Right now, the Orioles can only focus on what they can control: building the next contending team. 

 

[Going Underground]

11 minutes ago, crowmst3k! said:

I don't think the Orioles would move.  However, it will be telling to see what their attendance is like if/when they reach their window of being competitive.  

Having regularly gone to games during the stretch of 2009-2017, attendance definitely had a major drop following the 2015 riots, even though they were still in their 'window' (missed playoffs in 2015, made them in 2016, missed in 2017, full teardown in 2018).  

Personally, I live in the city, go downtown enough, and I don't really feel threatened or unsafe. The city does have a crime problem and a perception problem, and needs to work harder at lowering the crime stats and make people from outside the city, who currently feel unsafe, feel more confident about going downtown with their families again.  

Not trying to veer off into politics, so I'll correct back into my lane: but whether its perception or reality, more people will return regularly if there is a good product on the field, and people feel safer doing so.  

Right now, the Orioles can only focus on what they can control: building the next contending team. 

 

I had season tickets for 13 years .Got rid of them in 2020.Orioles did not seem to care,so why should I. Their marketing department and sales is not very good in my opinion. No MASN either ,so will try to get my information mostly from here.MASN reporters are basically promotion people for the Orioles. Have been to one game in three years and don't miss it.

 Sorry about my rant.I also live in the city. Some parts of the city are thriving with major building like Port Covington. Other parts of the city are some of the worst places in the country.