Austin Hays 2022

[pastorfan]

Just now, Pickles said:

They replaced Cruz with Trumbo and then gave him an unwise longterm extension.  Was he not a significant addition?

Trumbo was actually brought in to replace Davis, and then well, we know what they did!

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, pastorfan said:

Trumbo was actually brought in to replace Davis, and then well, we know what they did!

Not the sign of a team not going for it.

[maybenxtyr]

39 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think after Dan tried and failed to go to Toronto, Buck basically became co-GM.  Maybe Brady was the 3rd GM.  I think if Dan had just resigned, he would have had much more respect around baseball.

You keep saying this about Dan Duquette, but it's an industry standard that executives generally get granted the ok to move if it's a position of promotion. I don't think he went out looking for a new job but rather Toronto recognized him as someone to become the president of their team. Really it's not a big deal I guess, I just don't care when someone doesn't give the whole story.

[pastorfan]

11 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Not the sign of a team not going for it.

Different years. I am saying that after the 2014 season they let Cruz and Markakis go and made no real effort in FA to "go for it" in a time when both NY and Boston were down. Trumbo was obtained prior to the 2016 season in anticipation of losing Davis, then they resigned Davis. They wasted the 2015 season IMO. Not so coincidentally, this same offseason DD was rumored to be talking to Toronto.

[Pickles]

Just now, pastorfan said:

Different years. I am saying that after the 2014 season they let Cruz and Markakis go and made no real effort in FA to "go for it" in a time when both NY and Boston were down. Trumbo was obtained prior to the 2016 season in anticipation of losing Davis, then they resigned Davis. They wasted the 2015 season IMO. Not so coincidentally, this same offseason DD was rumored to be talking to Toronto.

Well, I don't think you're wrong that stuff was going on that offseason, but I think you're wrong in the sense that that team wasn't doing everything it could to win now, future be damned.

They were running a record payroll, and that's the year they traded Zach Davies for 2 months of Gerardo Parra.  There's a future be damned move if there ever was one.

[OriolesMagic83]

21 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

You keep saying this about Dan Duquette, but it's an industry standard that executives generally get granted the ok to move if it's a position of promotion. I don't think he went out looking for a new job but rather Toronto recognized him as someone to become the president of their team. Really it's not a big deal I guess, I just don't care when someone doesn't give the whole story.

I wish the O's/Angelos had let Dan leave.  Not really a smart move to try to force someone to stay and run your franchise.  I just can't see someone like Elias staying if the O's reduced his power/had someone else making decisions.  I guess the O's maybe could stop Dan from taking a job w/ another franchise right away, but I doubt they could have done it more than 1 year.

[AnythingO's]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think after Dan tried and failed to go to Toronto, Buck basically became co-GM.  Maybe Brady was the 3rd GM.  I think if Dan had just resigned, he would have had much more respect around baseball.

Dan was approached by Mike Rogers of Rogers Communication, the parent of the BJs MLB club, and was asked if he was interested in being in charge of the Rogers Center operations and the MLB team at 2-3 times his Orioles salary. DD was recommended to Rogers by a Board member of the NY Yankees. This was an obvious promotion and until PA, MLB franchises did not stand in the way of a MLB executive moving on for a promotion. DD went to PA with the offer just before the winter meetings. DD was neutered by PA at that point while PA tried to get the compensation from Toronto he was demanding. Didn't happen and PA refused to let DD go. DD did NOT approach Toronto, there wasn't even an open position at the time. This was Mike Rogers trying to get his man in position as an inter-family power play

[maybenxtyr]

5 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I wish the O's/Angelos had let Dan leave.  Not really a smart move to try to force someone to stay and run your franchise.  I just can't see someone like Elias staying if the O's reduced his power/had someone else making decisions.  I guess the O's maybe could stop Dan from taking a job w/ another franchise right away, but I doubt they could have done it more than 1 year.

I agree with you that they should have let him leave. He obviously wanted the promotion. I hope the sons are not as stubborn as their father. 

[DrungoHazewood]

37 minutes ago, Pickles said:

They replaced Cruz with Trumbo and then gave him an unwise longterm extension.  Was he not a significant addition?

No, he wasn't.  He was a smidge over replacement the three years prior to coming to Baltimore.  The Mariners thought so much of him that they let him go for Steve Clevinger, the Chance Sisco of 2015.

[OriolesMagic83]

1 minute ago, AnythingO's said:

Dan was approached by Mike Rogers of Rogers Communication, the parent of the BJs MLB club, and was asked if he was interested in being in charge of the Rogers Center operations and the MLB team at 2-3 times his Orioles salary. DD was recommended to Rogers by a Board member of the NY Yankees. This was an obvious promotion and until PA, MLB franchises did not stand in the way of a MLB executive moving on for a promotion. DD went to PA with the offer just before the winter meetings. DD was neutered by PA at that point while PA tried to get the compensation from Toronto he was demanding. Didn't happen and PA refused to let DD go. DD did NOT approach Toronto, there wasn't even an open position at the time. This was Mike Rogers trying to get his man in position as an inter-family power play

Yeah the big thing for Angelos was the compensation.  There isn't a big history of teams giving up prospects for front office guys.  This isn't the NFL were teams are sending draft picks to get another team's coach.  The whole thing was handled like a clusterf@@k. 

[foxfield]

I always thought that DD handled it the right way.  Who wouldn't want a promotion.  Angelos could have either promoted Dan or let him leave and ask for compensation.  Instead, ole Pete screwed everyone...DD, by taking away his authority, Toronto by denying them their man, and the Orioles by leaving Dan in a job he would not let him properly do.  

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, foxfield said:

I always thought that DD handled it the right way.  Who wouldn't want a promotion.  Angelos could have either promoted Dan or let him leave and ask for compensation.  Instead, ole Pete screwed everyone...DD, by taking away his authority, Toronto by denying them their man, and the Orioles by leaving Dan in a job he would not let him properly do.  

Exactly but I’m sure Angelo’s thought he won that one.  Lol

[foxfield]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Exactly but I’m sure Angelo’s thought he won that one.  Lol

Oh no doubt he won, got the last word, last laugh and all of the I told you so's.  Good ole Pete.  Why...it reminds of the time that John Denver appeared on Television and said he was gonna sing a song about Gerald R. Ford. He sang..."I'll sing you a song....of Gerald R. Ford....and all the things he's done......................

[AnythingO's]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Exactly but I’m sure Angelo’s thought he won that one.  Lol

PA gave DD a job 10 years after he was pushed out in Boston. Nobody else would. PA valued loyalty, probably felt DD was being disloyal by entertaining the overture.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

PA gave DD a job 10 years after he was pushed out in Boston. Nobody else would. PA valued loyalty, probably felt DD was being disloyal by entertaining the overture.

Maybe, but what good was stopping him from going and then taking away some of his power?  Kind of just vindictive.