Buck Britton Will Be An Elite ML Manager

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Earl was the best because he was an early adopter of stats and analytics.  He was a matchup fanatic.  

Sure, he had great, talented teams but it's not like he was managing by the seat of his pants.

A big part of Earl's genius was in the way he manipulated his position players, both the starting lineup and the bench, to optimize the matchups and to make sure he had the right guy available in key situations -- when "the gun was loaded," to use his terminology. That's really hard to do with today's short benches, but he probably would have found some ways to work within that system. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

A big part of Earl's genius was in the way he manipulated his position players, both the starting lineup and the bench, to optimize the matchups and to make sure he had the right guy available in key situations -- when "the gun was loaded," to use his terminology. That's really hard to do with today's short benches, but he probably would have found some ways to work within that system. 

Also a big part of Earl's genius?  Having a stacked roster.

He wasn't as smart when he came back in 85-86 and had a diminished roster to work with.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Also a big part of Earl's genius?  Having a stacked roster.

He wasn't as smart when he came back in 85-86 and had a diminished roster to work with.

He also didn’t have the same energy. Was just older. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

He also didn’t have the same energy. Was just older. 

You do know he was 55 in '86 right?

Buck was older for most of his tenure with the O's.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You do know he was 55 in '86 right?

Buck was older for most of his tenure with the O's.

I didn’t but my father always said he didn’t have the same energy when he came back. I trust his baseball acumen.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

I didn’t but my father always said he didn’t have the same energy when he came back. I trust his baseball acumen.

I recall the same but how much of that was age and how much of that was the roster?  I bet you put three Cy Young candidates on the '86 team and Earl gets a bit more spring in his step. 

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Earl was the best because he was an early adopter of stats and analytics.  He was a matchup fanatic.  

Sure, he had great, talented teams but it's not like he was managing by the seat of his pants.

I think Earl was less analytic with his early 1969-70-71 teams than with his latter teams of Lolo and Roenicke etcc

Thr position players of 1969 team averaged more than 150 games except for at catcher where Elrod and Etch platooned .. the pitchers pitched a lot of complete games … there was not much matchup stuff going on 

 

Earl was good at getting his bench guys enough at bats to stay fresh like Rettenmund and Salmon and Dave May but he was not sending them in for Frank or Brooks or Boog etc 

[Bahama O's Fan]

What managers have you seen that made a big difference? I mean things like taking a roster low on talent and winning more games than they "should"?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

What managers have you seen that made a big difference? I mean things like taking a roster low on talent and winning more games than they "should"?

You never know but it is possible that lighting can strike in a given year with a given manager.
 

You could spin me a theory in which a different manager walks the bullpen tightrope less adroitly and the 2012 Orioles win 82 games (their pythag).

But of course that same manager was in charge in 2011 and no magic was to be had.

I don't think it's a repeatable skill.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

38 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I recall the same but how much of that was age and how much of that was the roster?  I bet you put three Cy Young candidates on the '86 team and Earl gets a bit more spring in his step. 

In 1986 the Orioles were 2.5 games out of first place on August 5th, but then collapsed because the team wasn't good enough.  Maybe Earl wasn't at his peak anymore, but he didn't have the talent to work his magic especially with the pitching. 

Storm Davis was the only starting pitcher with an ERA+ better than the league average in 1986. 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I recall the same but how much of that was age and how much of that was the roster?  I bet you put three Cy Young candidates on the '86 team and Earl gets a bit more spring in his step. 

Maybe your right. But Buck will get the Mets to the playoffs if not more so I strongly feel a great manager can make a significant difference, more than SABR believes. 

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You do know he was 55 in '86 right?

Buck was older for most of his tenure with the O's.

True, but I think most guys in their 60’s now are healthier and more energetic than was the case 25-30 years ago.  Earl lived pretty hard.   There’s a reason he retired the first time.  

That said, your point about the roster is quite valid.   
 

[Can_of_corn]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:58 PM, Frobby said:

True, but I think most guys in their 60’s now are healthier and more energetic than was the case 25-30 years ago.  Earl lived pretty hard.   There’s a reason he retired the first time.  

That said, your point about the roster is quite valid.   
 

Danny Elfman

This is what 68 looks like on some people.