Gunnar Henderson Now #5 in MLB.com Updated Top 100

[RZNJ]

12 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Jordan Lawlar…13

I know you guys get annoyed when I do this. So.  19 errors in 43 games at SS.   .876 fpct.  Maybe he'll be an all-star 3B?

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I know you guys get annoyed when I do this. So.  19 errors in 43 games at SS.   .876 fpct.  Maybe he'll be an all-star 3B?

Jeter had 56 errors his first year in the minors.  I know Jeter wasn't a great defensive SS, but he also wasn't making a ridiculous amount of errors once he got to the MLB.

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Jeter had 56 errors his first year in the minors.  I know Jeter wasn't a great defensive SS, but he also wasn't making a ridiculous amount of errors once he got to the MLB.

Point taken. Still, not a good sign.

[LookinUp]

I get the feeling they updated the list with big moves like Henderson's, but for most it was just about moving up because other people moved out.

So I don't think they really re-rated Westburg and Cowser as much as moved them up because others left or have bombed so far.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

I know you guys get annoyed when I do this. So.  19 errors in 43 games at SS.   .876 fpct.  Maybe he'll be an all-star 3B?

Mateo has 11 errors and has great defensive ratings.

Errors don’t mean much unless they do.  Why is he making them?  What are the field conditions?  Are they do to getting to balls no one can?  Is he trying to do too much? Is it mechanics?  Is it an inability to play the position?

Can you show any reports that are currently questioning his ability to stay at SS long term?

BTw, if he’s a third baseman, he was still the pick over Cowser.

[MCO'sFan]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Not listed…Asa Lacy and Austin Martin 

I don't take any pleasure in Martin's struggles and I have never posted a gloating post until now. I took tremendous heat from one particular poster who was outraged that the O's didn't take Martin. I didn't like him as a prospect and said so. I also criticized the media for ranking him in the top 10 post draft. This poster went so far as to try to shame me because although I have been a plus member and poster since 2004 I had only accumulated a few hundred posts. Yes, I feel vindicated wanted to gloat a little. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I don't take any pleasure in Martin's struggles and I have never posted a gloating post until now. I took tremendous heat from one particular poster who was outraged that the O's didn't take Martin. I didn't like him as a prospect and said so. I also criticized the media for ranking him in the top 10 post draft. This poster went so far as to try to shame me because although I have been a plus member and poster since 2004 I had only accumulated a few hundred posts. Yes, I feel vindicated wanted to gloat a little. 

Nothing wrong with gloating.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I don't take any pleasure in Martin's struggles and I have never posted a gloating post until now. I took tremendous heat from one particular poster who was outraged that the O's didn't take Martin. I didn't like him as a prospect and said so. I also criticized the media for ranking him in the top 10 post draft. This poster went so far as to try to shame me because although I have been a plus member and poster since 2004 I had only accumulated a few hundred posts. Yes, I feel vindicated wanted to gloat a little. 

Funny, I get the opposite.

Sure over 4 thousand of my posts are in a single thread on the music forum but I obviously must have an inflated sense of importance because I've posted a lot. 

It has nothing to do with the fact that I have zero Oriole fans that I interact with in real life.

[jdwilde1]

I hope Lawlar is a better defender than Jeter, regardless of the similar minor league error totals (and as noted, Jeter’s MLB fielding percentage was fine).  I doubt Jeter is shortstop if he comes up today since he was the worst shortstop in history based on advanced defense metrics (truthfully, the worst defender in history taking away positional adjustment).  His career Rfield is -253.  That is, his career rWAR lost 25.3 because his defense was so bad.  By comparison, Cal’s career Rfield is +181.  Thus, Cal was a mind-blowing 434 runs better than Jeter.  
 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, jdwilde1 said:

I hope Lawlar is a better defender than Jeter, regardless of the similar minor league error totals (and as noted, Jeter’s MLB fielding percentage was fine).  I doubt Jeter is shortstop if he comes up today since he was the worst shortstop in history based on advanced defense metrics (truthfully, the worst defender in history taking away positional adjustment).  His career Rfield is -253.  That is, his career rWAR lost 25.3 because his defense was so bad.  By comparison, Cal’s career Rfield is +181.  Thus, Cal was a mind-blowing 434 runs better than Jeter.  
 

 

With the increase in strike outs and the emphasis hitters put on putting the ball in the air infield defense should be less important now than when Jeter played.

[LookinUp]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Mateo has 11 errors and has great defensive ratings.

Errors don’t mean much unless they do.  Why is he making them?  What are the field conditions?  Are they do to getting to balls no one can?  Is he trying to do too much? Is it mechanics?  Is it an inability to play the position?

Can you show any reports that are currently questioning his ability to stay at SS long term?

BTw, if he’s a third baseman, he was still the pick over Cowser.

I don't really have a dog in this Lawler fight, but he's 19 years old and prospects regularly improve a lot in the field around that age.

I don't think the defensive book is written on him yet. Heck, I don't think any book is written on him yet, but I'd be more interested in his athleticism and arm strength than pure fielding % stats at this point.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I don't really have a dog in this Lawler fight, but he's 19 years old and prospects regularly improve a lot in the field around that age.

I don't think the defensive book is written on him yet. Heck, I don't think any book is written on him yet, but I'd be more interested in his athleticism and arm strength than pure fielding % stats at this point.

Of course this is the correct way of looking at it.

[Frobby]

31 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

With the increase in strike outs and the emphasis hitters put on putting the ball in the air infield defense should be less important now than when Jeter played.

For perspective, in Jeter’s rookie year the average team had 769 chances at SS.   Last year the average was 622.   So, you could say infield defense is 20% less important today than when Jeter started.   But it’s still pretty important.  

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I don't really have a dog in this Lawler fight, but he's 19 years old and prospects regularly improve a lot in the field around that age.

I don't think the defensive book is written on him yet. Heck, I don't think any book is written on him yet, but I'd be more interested in his athleticism and arm strength than pure fielding % stats at this point.

That’s undoubtedly true.  But, it’s something to keep an eye on.   Jeter’s 56 error year was something of an outlier for him and the next year he was down to 25 errors.  We will see about Lawlar.  In any event, he’s no doubt a very good prospect whether he sticks at SS or not long term.  

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

BTw, if he’s a third baseman, he was still the pick over Cowser.

Yep, and by a large margin. Worst decision of Elias’ tenure so far and gives me limited confidence for this year as a result.