2023 Rotation

[ShoelesJoe]

Without Means our starting rotation is RH heavy in a home park that favors LH hitters. That’s not an ideal combination. IMO Elias & Co. should focus on acquiring either a southpaw starter or a righty with reverse splits. Use Camden Yards to our advantage as much as possible. 
 

Not sure who would qualify other than the usual suspects who are mostly off limits. The Marlins claim Alcantara (held lefties to .198 BA) isn’t available, but given their situation I have to think we could pry him away with a package of prospects. If that’s not practical then I’m throwing big bucks at Verlander on a 2-3 year deal. 

[SCJeff]

Based on his performance, I keep Lyles unless you are extremely confident that you can sign/trade for two quality starters better than him. Who knows, at 11M on a one year contract Elias might even be able to trade Lyles during the off-season for a lottery ticket or two?

[MarCakes21]

3 minutes ago, SCJeff said:

Based on his performance, I keep Lyles unless you are extremely confident that you can sign/trade for two quality starters better than him. Who knows, at 11M on a one year contract Elias might even be able to trade Lyles during the off-season for a lottery ticket or two?

When do we have to decide on Lyles?  It would be nice to see if we can make some inroads on some FA SP (through Agents?  Is that legal?) before we have to decide on his option.

[Mavericksouth]

16 hours ago, ShoelesJoe said:

Without Means our starting rotation is RH heavy in a home park that favors LH hitters. That’s not an ideal combination. IMO Elias & Co. should focus on acquiring either a southpaw starter or a righty with reverse splits. Use Camden Yards to our advantage as much as possible. 
 

Not sure who would qualify other than the usual suspects who are mostly off limits. The Marlins claim Alcantara (held lefties to .198 BA) isn’t available, but given their situation I have to think we could pry him away with a package of prospects. If that’s not practical then I’m throwing big bucks at Verlander on a 2-3 year deal. 

What would that prospect package for Alcantara look like? *Marlins fan here*

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

What would that prospect package for Alcantara look like? *Marlins fan here*

More than anyone wants to give up.   Is not including Grayson Rodriguez a non-starter?

Cedric Mullins, Kyle Bradish, D.L. Hall, Jordan Westburg

[OriolesMagic83]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

More than anyone wants to give up.   Is not including Grayson Rodriguez a non-starter?

Cedric Mullins, Kyle Bradish, D.L. Hall, Jordan Westburg

If the O's could substitute Voth for Bradish I would probably do it. 

[jamalshw]

57 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

More than anyone wants to give up.   Is not including Grayson Rodriguez a non-starter?

Cedric Mullins, Kyle Bradish, D.L. Hall, Jordan Westburg

I would assume Rodriguez, Henderson or Rutschman would have to headline, but...to be honest, I think I pull the trigger if it's Mullins, Bradish, Hall and Westburg.

I'd try to get away with less obviously (or see if you can add someone like Trevor Rodgers as added depth by throwing in an extra mid-range prospect) , but if that's what's needed to get it done, it's 5-years of control of the should be NL Cy Young Award winner. I'm a bit concerned about the 228.2 innings on the arm this year, but he's thrown nearly 200 innings each of the last three full seasons (excluding 2020) and has continued to show improvement. 

Basically Alcantra replaces Bradish in the rotation, you go with: Alcantra, Rodriguez, Lyles (bring him back since you are moving two SP options in this deal), Kremer and Wells. You still have guys like Voth, Watkins, Baumann, and Zimmermann for depth (not great options, beyond Voth, but options). Means is a second half option and you still have a strong farm system for more deals/reinforcements if needed. 

In the outfield, you can look for a CF replacement for Mullins or slide Hays to CF while giving McKenna some time as well. Between Santander, Stowers and Vavra, you have the corners covered until Cowser arrives. On the infield, you have Henderson, Mateo, Ortiz, Urias, and (eventually) Norby as options. 

Since cost of reinforcing the top of the rotation will be minimal in terms of dollars, the team can then use some of the money they should have available this offseason for a bat. Brandon Nimmo would be an interesting replacement for Mullins in CF. On the higher end, I'm still a Trea Turner fan and could LOVE to add him, pushing Vavra to be almost exclusively an OF (at least until Cowser arrives). 

[Mavericksouth]

57 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

More than anyone wants to give up.   Is not including Grayson Rodriguez a non-starter?

Cedric Mullins, Kyle Bradish, D.L. Hall, Jordan Westburg

We don't need pitching at all. No interest in Bradish or Hall. We have better pitching prospects than both of those guys. Mullins,  Westburg,  Cowser, and Ortiz or Mayo. That gets you to the pay window if you want a 27 year old Cy Young winner with a team friendly contract for the next 4-5 years. Not being a jerk but it's important to be realistic with your fan base. Fans tend to put on what I like to call "Homer shades" and propose one way trades that would never be accepted. Sandy is considered untouchable by us. That said, if you're going to change our mind, know that to get quality you're going to have to give quality. Lots of it.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

We don't need pitching at all. No interest in Bradish or Hall. We have better pitching prospects than both of those guys. Mullins,  Westburg,  Cowser, and Ortiz or Mayo. That gets you to the pay window if you want a 27 year old Cy Young winner with a team friendly contract for the next 4-5 years. Not being a jerk but it's important to be realistic with your fan base. Fans tend to put on what I like to call "Homer shades" and propose one way trades that would never be accepted. Sandy is considered untouchable by us. That said, if you're going to change our mind, know that to get quality you're going to have to give quality. Lots of it.

Tempted to do Mullins, Westburg, Cowser, Mayo but it’s too much to give up considering our circumstances.  That trade doesn’t put us over the top.  It also creates a hole in CF with our top OF prospect (who plays CF) in the deal.   

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

We don't need pitching at all. No interest in Bradish or Hall. We have better pitching prospects than both of those guys. Mullins,  Westburg,  Cowser, and Ortiz or Mayo. That gets you to the pay window if you want a 27 year old Cy Young winner with a team friendly contract for the next 4-5 years. Not being a jerk but it's important to be realistic with your fan base. Fans tend to put on what I like to call "Homer shades" and propose one way trades that would never be accepted. Sandy is considered untouchable by us. That said, if you're going to change our mind, know that to get quality you're going to have to give quality. Lots of it.

Is it realistic to expect 3 top 100 prospects and a 3+ WAR CFer with multiple years of service time left for Alcantara?

 

I am not sure.  Maybe.  But I think you would be hard pressed to get that deal if you were looking to move him.

[RZNJ]

Substitute Stowers for Cowser and we can talk.

[Mavericksouth]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Is it realistic to expect 3 top 100 prospects and a 3+ WAR CFer with multiple years of service time left for Alcantara?

 

I am not sure.  Maybe.  But I think you would be hard pressed to get that deal if you were looking to move him.

We're not looking to move him, LOL. That's my whole point. I consider Sandy untouchable simply because for what he is worth, it is unlikely anyone is willing to pay it.  I'm just reading how Alcantara is somehow attainable if you give up a pitching prospect who may or may not be a starter who has control issues, another starter with a 5+ ERA, Mullins who slightly regressed from 2021 (I still like him though), and Westburg (whom I like, but his defense concerns me, and he has never taken a big league at bat). 

Again, any stud pitcher let alone a Cy Young winning one in his prime is going to cost ALOT more than that. If you're not willing to really spend those prospects to get to the next level then my recommendation is roll the dice on free agency and seek lower tiered pitchers in trades. As a Marlins fan, every pitcher is open for discussion not named Sandy. But you're probably not going to fleece any team for a quality arm. It's going to cost.

[Mavericksouth]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Substitute Stowers for Cowser and we can talk.

Nope.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Mavericksouth said:

We're not looking to move him, LOL. That's my whole point. I consider Sandy untouchable simply because for what he is worth, it is unlikely anyone is willing to pay it.  I'm just reading how Alcantara is somehow attainable if you give up a pitching prospect who may or may not be a starter who has control issues, another starter with a 5+ ERA, Mullins who slightly regressed from 2021 (I still like him though), and Westburg (whom I like, but his defense concerns me, and he has never taken a big league at bat). 

Again, any stud pitcher let alone a Cy Young winning one in his prime is going to cost ALOT more than that. If you're not willing to really spend those prospects to get to the next level then my recommendation is roll the dice on free agency and seek lower tiered pitchers in trades. As a Marlins fan, every pitcher is open for discussion not named Sandy. But you're probably not going to fleece any team for a quality arm. It's going to cost.

Well first of all, no player should be untouchable.  That is just the right way to approach things with a team that needs a lot to be good again.

And I am not saying it won't cost a lot.  I am just not sure if it costs that much but honestly, looking at his numbers a little deeper, it may.  He is signed to a cheap deal too.

 

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

Nope.

Fair enough but we're coming off a winning season with a young team and the #1 farm system in baseball (according to some).  You managed a 92 loss (and counting) season with an 8 win season from Alcantara.   Your trade offer is fair.  If we had a playoff caliber team as is and we were just adding him, I could see it.