This is my favorite Oriole team ever

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Yeah, but because J.J. Hardy type deals work out 1 out of 10 times apparently instead of the 1 in 10 chance the Mateos work out, that is something to die on your sword for.  How chivalrous!

No, the sword I’m not dying on is handing over starting jobs to players who are “old” and have never done anything in their pro careers.

Of course a DeJong trade was risky.  You won’t find me saying it was definitely going to work.  You will find me saying it was a risk I felt was worth taking.  I’m fine with thinking that.

His defense is still excellent.  His bat has become complete garbage.  

Heading into this year, Mateo had neither going for him but I still wanted him to be a big part of the team because he does have obvious talent and tools.

Im glad he has proven me wrong.  He has been a big part of the turnaround because his defense has been so valuable and he had a 2 month stretch of looking like a MLer with the bat.  He’s back to struggling again and we will see how he ends the year.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

And btw, despite a poor offensive season last year, DeJong was worth 1.3 fWAR.  His OAA this year is 5, which is the same as Mateo.

And seeing as how we all like to tout the analytics program the Orioles have and how well they have done with reclamation projects, there’s nothing saying DeJong wouldn’t have been better here in Baltimore.

He also appears to back to starting most games at SS for one of the better teams in the NL.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

And btw, despite a poor offensive season last year, DeJong was worth 1.3 fWAR.  His OAA this year is 5, which is the same as Mateo.

And seeing as how we all like to tout the analytics program the Orioles have and how well they have done with reclamation projects, there’s nothing saying DeJong wouldn’t have been better here in Baltimore.

He also appears to back to starting most games at SS for one of the better teams in the NL.

I should have known.  You don’t even know how to die on a sword properly.   I’m sure Delong’s .158 average and .258 OBP to go along with his 6M salary this year and 9M salary would be going over real big right now.  So now we’re going to say he must be good because he’s starting for a contender.?   LOL

 

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I should have known.  You don’t even know how to die on a sword properly.   I’m sure Delong’s .158 average and .258 OBP to go along with his 6M salary this year and 9M salary would be going over real big right now.  So now we’re going to say he must be good because he’s starting for a contender.?   LOL

 

Not at all.  Just saying his defense has been as good as Mateo in less chances. He obviously has been the worse player but again, if you believe in what the team is doing here, it’s fair to say he may have performed better. It’s not like Mateo has a 250+ point advantage in OPS.  

But even if he had performed better, his salary would have still made him less valuable than Mateo.

I was also merely noting that he is back starting with St Louis.  I wasn’t aware of that.  His defense, for them at least, is worth starting him. I wouldn’t want that because the offense is so bad although his OPS in august wasn’t  that far from Mateo’s overall offense for the year.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Sports Guy

[joelala]

22 hours ago, SteveA said:

It's possible to agree with that statement and still feel that the over the top hate for the guy on here is out of control and out of proportion.

You can't have a thread about anything without it being brought up that it is some soft of horrific travesty that he is playing so much.  There are actually people on this thread who admit they can't fully enjoy one of the greatest turnaround seasons in MLB history because of Odor's mere presence on the field.

Start a thread about how good the crab pretzels are at OPACY and there's bound to be someone who says they would taste better if Odor wasn't in the lineup.  

This. Yes. Odor isn’t great but he’s had his moments and we truly have no idea how much he’s contributed to the amazing chemistry that is fueling this absurd turn around. 
 

I trust Hyde has the pulse of this team. 

[JR Oriole]

Our team has literally been great for the last 1/3 of a full season.  Not good....but great.  And while there may be some poor individual performers, would we really care if they continued to win 2 out of every 3 games for the rest of the year and into October?  I doubt it.  Check out the roster of the 1983 Orioles, as there were plenty of mediocre players and underperformers on that team.  The biggest problem we have is not our own team.  It is that our direct competitors simply decided to stop losing games.  

[ledzepp8]

48 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

Our team has literally been great for the last 1/3 of a full season.  Not good....but great.  And while there may be some poor individual performers, would we really care if they continued to win 2 out of every 3 games for the rest of the year and into October?  I doubt it.  Check out the roster of the 1983 Orioles, as there were plenty of mediocre players and underperformers on that team.  The biggest problem we have is not our own team.  It is that our direct competitors simply decided to stop losing games.  

Exactly. It is what it is. The Orioles can only control what they do. That's why I've said that missing the playoffs wouldn't be a failure to me because this has been such a fun season of baseball (one we haven't had in a while). Would I want them to make the playoffs? Of course. I don't think they're good enough to win once they get there, although I would love to be proven wrong.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, ledzepp8 said:

Exactly. It is what it is. The Orioles can only control what they do. That's why I've said that missing the playoffs wouldn't be a failure to me because this has been such a fun season of baseball (one we haven't had in a while). Would I want them to make the playoffs? Of course. I don't think they're good enough to win once they get there, although I would love to be proven wrong.

This season is a success if it ended today.   We have ML pieces at every spot heading into next season.   We, theoretically, have a full rotation coming back.   The whole bullpen is coming back.   No, I'm not saying we should stand pat.   What I'm saying is that for once, the Orioles have gotten to the point where they have depth.   We can move a Kremer/Bradish/Wells in a trade for a TOR.  We can move Mateo or Urias as a secondary piece in a deal.   We can hold onto everyone, put Henderson at 3B, Mateo at SS, Urias at 2B, and have tremendous depth in Norfolk to start next year in Westburg, Ortiz, and Norby.    We can start next year with Hays/Mullins/Santander/Stowers knowing we have Cowser geting ready in Norfolk.

Though everyone would cry about it, you could even start the season with a rotation of Wells, Bradish, Kremer, Rodriguez, and Voth.    We have some depth to make trades or we can sign a FA and just create more depth as a TOR just pushes a Voth or Bradish to the bullpen.    There is a lot of flexibility in both payroll and the roster.    

 

[Jammer7]

This might be my favorite team as a fan since 1977, maybe. It depends on how they finish. They are not the most talented, but there was largely unproven or immature talent that has progressed well. They came into the year as a bunch of cast offs and underdogs. They take much better at bats than in years past. They are more athletic, dynamic and fun. They catch the ball about as well as I can remember any Orioles team, overall. Mostly, they never quit. They are a flawed bunch, but they will not back down. They are a team, and it shows. 

Good teams are built up the middle. Mateo is the shining example of development at the major league level, and he did it at SS, the most demanding and important defensive position. The bat is still evolving, but the growth is obvious. 

Most did not expect Ced to repeat his 30/30 season. He has continued to evolve as a hitter. He is using the whole field more, and working counts better. The defense has been solid, spectacular often. The arm has improved, thanks mostly to keeping his fingers behind the ball. (It seems strange that no one fixed that before 2021, yikes!)

Adding Adley has been a huge reason for the overall team improvement. His impact is felt in every corner of the dugout and clubhouse. He is making adjustments on the fly, and in a playoff chase. Mature beyond his years. He has not disappointed me in any way.

Santander is showing traits similar to his 2020 season. He has lost a step, and looks less athletic than he did in 2020. Perhaps he bulked up too much, or maybe the leg injuries have taken a toll. The swing decisions have improved greatly and he has managed to stay healthy. (He is starting to evoke memories of Ken Singleton for me.)

Hays had a very good first half, and is obviously out of sync right now. The injuries to his hands and wrists are obvious. There is not a tougher man out there in uniform. Diving in, trying to get around and yank everything is killing his numbers. A few nights ago, he drilled a line drive to RF, which was caught. He looked absolutely disgusted. I hope he keeps with a more balanced approach. The bigger issue might be that he is pounding the ball into the ground. His defense is very good. And the guy is an absolute grinder. Sort of a right handed Paul O’Neill for me.

Mountcastle is starting to come around again. Out of sync, and caught often in-between, mentally. He started chasing again around the break. If he can keep being more patient, it’s a good sign for us. We need that bat to be productive. I have also noted his defensive improvement. Several diving plays and picks at 1B. Still somewhat of a work in progress, the footwork in particular has been a challenge at times.

Urias is a quiet unsung hero of sorts. Solid, if unspectacular, at 3B, sometimes 2B. Sneaky pop, makes me laugh. He hits the ball as hard as anyone on the team. They have gotten him to get the bat head out front and drive balls out to LCF. He has had trouble balancing that with his usual RCF approach, at times. His development and play has been as important to this team as much as any position player not named Adley or Mateo.

And then there is Odor. I did not see why Hyde wanted him on this team to start at 2B. I was vocal about it, and I was wrong in some ways. He has been very good defensively. In particular, he has been used in a very challenging way in our shifts. Many MLB 2B cannot do what he has done. I think that is why his OAA and other metrics are down on him. As far as his “cheerleading” or whatever, he has had his value as a leader. On and off the field, he is just that. I give him a lot of credit in the growth of Jorge Mateo, though Mateo deserves much of the credit himself. Odor has helped him in ways few players could have. Odor’s offensive numbers are, well they are offensive. He shows glimpses of hitting line drives to LCF now and then. But he follows that up with swinging with a massive launch angle the next three at bats. Maybe his time has come and gone. Perhaps he has had what impact he could have and it is time to sit and watch Gunnar. But to discount completely what Odor has done for this team, then you do not understand how the game is played at that level.

The coaching staff, scouts and analysts are flying under the radar, but they might be the most important component of all of this. All of the little things add up. And these folks do a helluva job! Hat tip.

The rotation is over their heads, talent-wise. The pen is seemingly ready to fall apart. The lineup has had trouble scoring runs for the past month. I’m not sure they can sustain themselves through the Wildcard run. The fact that they are playing real meaningful games in September just warms my heart. Whatever happens, just enjoy it. 

The weird thing for me comes after this season. What becomes of this team? What to do with Henderson, Westburg, Ortiz, Stowers, Vavra and so on? What does this mean for Mateo, Santander, Urias, Hays and probably Ced? I have become attached to some of these lovable underdogs. The way forward to “lift off” is exciting. This is such a highly intelligent non-traditional front office. They have a stable full of talented kids to develop or deal. They have money to spend. It seems like the end of an era, and the beginning of something we have never seen before in Baltimore. Time to win, and for a long time. 

[JR Oriole]

The Red Sox did not really become the Red Sox we know and hate until they finally stopped losing big games to the Yankees.  That changed everything for that franchise. One thing I would love to see going forward is for us to follow suit. NY has won exactly 3 out of 14 series since the All-Star Break and only one of those was on the road.....in Baltimore.  And while we have sadly come to accept 30 years of Yankee domination at Camden Yards, the fact is nobody else outside of Minnesota is scared of that team.  They ousted us in 1996, they ousted us in 2012, and they still have a way of winning the games that really matter when they play us.  A big part of our turnaround as a franchise has to be beating them when it counts.

[Just Regular]

13 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

As far as his “cheerleading” or whatever, he has had his value as a leader. On and off the field, he is just that. I give him a lot of credit in the growth of Jorge Mateo, though Mateo deserves much of the credit himself. Odor has helped him in ways few players could have.

This is the kind of stuff we can never know from B-Ref or Fangraphs or pigeonholing players as stat-producing robots, but on a gut level I agree with this take.

Rougned Odor 2.3.1994 and Jorge Mateo 6.23.1995 I'd guess had similar childhoods as ballplayers great enough to attract MLB interest, but their paths to MLB reps split sharply.     Entering this year Odor had seen almost everything, and Mateo almost nothing.

They have been a helluva double play combination.   A key success factor entering 2023 if if Mateo's growth will prove sticky as better players replace Odor as his second baseman.    I am watching with interest how this month's different combinations mesh.

Its understandable for a team like the 2022 Orioles to make a development project out of the entire starting middle infield, and its worked to the extent where I don't expect either Westburg or Ortiz to outplay Mateo while Holliday bakes.   I'm hopeful the water will be just as good next year with Mateo steadying Westburg like Odor perhaps helped steady him this year.     The best 2023's I feel involve Gunnar-Mateo-Westburg-RMC being infield rocks like some recent Braves teams have enjoyed.

[Too Tall]

Jammer7 - you nailed it!  Thank you! 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

This season is a success if it ended today.   We have ML pieces at every spot heading into next season.   We, theoretically, have a full rotation coming back.   The whole bullpen is coming back.   No, I'm not saying we should stand pat.   What I'm saying is that for once, the Orioles have gotten to the point where they have depth.   We can move a Kremer/Bradish/Wells in a trade for a TOR.  We can move Mateo or Urias as a secondary piece in a deal.   We can hold onto everyone, put Henderson at 3B, Mateo at SS, Urias at 2B, and have tremendous depth in Norfolk to start next year in Westburg, Ortiz, and Norby.    We can start next year with Hays/Mullins/Santander/Stowers knowing we have Cowser geting ready in Norfolk.

Though everyone would cry about it, you could even start the season with a rotation of Wells, Bradish, Kremer, Rodriguez, and Voth.    We have some depth to make trades or we can sign a FA and just create more depth as a TOR just pushes a Voth or Bradish to the bullpen.    There is a lot of flexibility in both payroll and the roster.    

 

This.  We are in an extremely enviable position.  

[Jammer7]

20 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

Jammer7 - you nailed it!  Thank you! 

Thanks for reading that very long post. lol

[emmett16]

This season is ip there for me.  As a 42y/o I was too young for any World Series or earlier 80’s teams.  The ‘89 team was one of the first ones I followed and was heart broken.  The ‘96 team was pretty much the first good team I can remember following.  ‘97 was an incredible season, but after the 14 years of losing, 2012 was my favorite season.  Manny Machado coming up, my son falling in love him, and the thrill of “the curse” finally being over was unreal. I found this site in 2008 and started diving into all the minor league teams and learned so much from all the knowledgeable posters, and when they finally won it was a pretty cool time on the message board.   This year has been an incredible ride.  Just being able to put the TV on every night and watch a good game has been so enjoyable.