MacPhail and Markakis

[SilentJames]

I don't agree with how you're thinking about this. The risk was right to take, because it was value added to the Tejada deal. He didn't trade for Patton, he traded for the 40% chance that Patton would return to form.

You don't grade trades like that on whether the gamble pays off.

Fair enough, I was just thinking of impact guys that Am brought into the fold. But he can come off the list.

[Lucky Jim]

Fair enough, I was just thinking of impact guys that Am brought into the fold. But he can come off the list.

I do agree - and have said before - that Spoone and Patton are really important in terms of offering flexibility. If one or both come back, that gives us a bunch more leeway to bundle arms and trade for position prospects.

[carolinaoriole]

Frobby's post in the other thread about Markakis being a litmus test is a good point. For many Tex was the straw that broke the camel's back with the Orioles and MacPhail, but there is some doubt that Tex would have chosen the Orioles if they had offered more.

So that brings us to Markakis and his extension. If MacPhail can't extend Markakis this offseason, will that be the final straw for you?

Keep in mind there are reports that the two parties are only $10 million apart.

No that will not be the final straw for me.

it is not totally up to AM.

Nick may decide that he wants to move on.

[Orioles West]

No place to cast my vote in this poll. An interesting question, but the responses are too limited.

First off, for Oriole fans, there can't really be a last straw. If you're still here after 11-years of losing, it is a little late to quit the Birds now. Oh, there may be anger and less O's gear in the closet, but fans of the game and this franchise don't simply walk away from this train wreck. In for a penny, in for a pound.

I have been rooting for the team since birth, and I'm out of options to be sent down to Norfolk, so I'm in until the end.

However, if the Birds do NOT sign Markakis, it will mean everyone on this board who claims there is a plan in place, will have to admit, there is no plan. If we are truly building from within for the long term, we best start extending some of the players we developed. What better place to start than Markakis?

-Don

[Bobby Young RW]

Before I can take the poll I gotta know .... is that $10 million on a one year extension?

[Tx Oriole]

T 81 to me you didn't have enough choices for me to vote. No and I ahve not lost any faith in MacPhail.

[wildcard]

No. Signing or trading Roberts is the litmus test, not Nick. We are watching the salaries of the remaining FA come down. Hopefully that will help Nick become more signable. If a long term agreement does not happen this year, it is not a disaster as long as the O's don't cause a riff in their relationship with Nick.

Now if the O's do not either sign or trade Roberts, that is a clear sign of mismanagement. Yes, he would bring back two first round draft choices but those players probably will take 2 to 5 years to get to the majors. That is not a good return for the team. Especially a team like the O's who can't compete on the FA market for top talent.

Huff is also a litmus test. He may not have the trade value of Roberts but he is too valuable to the O's to just let walk.

[DrungoHazewood]

No. Signing or trading Roberts is the litmus test, not Nick. We are watching the salaries of the remaining FA come down. Hopefully that will help Nick become more signable. If a long term agreement does not happen this year, it is not a disaster as long as the O's don't cause a riff in their relationship with Nick.

Now if the O's do not either sign or trade Roberts, that is a clear sign of mismanagement. Yes, he would bring back two first round draft choices but those players probably will take 2 to 5 years to get to the majors. That is not a good return for the team. Especially a team like the O's who can't compete on the FA market for top talent.

Huff is also a litmus test. He may not have the trade value of Roberts but he is too valuable to the O's to just let walk.

I agree with everything here except the Huff statement. Huff is a DH who's worth, on average, about 2.0 WAR. He's just another player unless you think he can play a defensive position (which all the evidence says he really can't) or that his peak will just continue on for a while despite being a below-average DH for three of the last four years.

Huff's value is that of a league average DH. With a little bonus for not having a 50 point OPS drop when he DHs, like most players. You shouldn't expect any more than 1/3 the return you'd get for Roberts. Draft picks might be a good option.

As for Markakis, yea, I'll be disappointed if he hasn't signed in the next year. But there might be a million reasons for that, and I'm not willing to hang any one person for a hypothetical situation just yet.

[Andy_Dufresne]

Remember how MacPhail managed to trade for several great players last year with one player? One player who busted? Just because he wasn't willing to go to 200 mil for Tex doesn't mean he doesn't want to win, or doesn't have what it takes. To me, we're forgetting how hard it is to find a really good official, and some of us seem to have memory loss about The Great One's inability to find said official.

I also remember that MacPhail couldn't trade All Star George Sherrill, can't trade All Star Brian Roberts. He also hasn't sign Markakis or Roberts (if he can't trade him).

It will be an unmitigated disaster if he lets Roberts become a Free Agent and leave the Orioles with nothing but a draft pick. BRob would be a type A right?

[RHall31]

Frobby's post in the other thread about Markakis being a litmus test is a good point. For many Tex was the straw that broke the camel's back with the Orioles and MacPhail, but there is some doubt that Tex would have chosen the Orioles if they had offered more.

So that brings us to Markakis and his extension. If MacPhail can't extend Markakis this offseason, will that be the final straw for you?

Keep in mind there are reports that the two parties are only $10 million apart.

Of course we know how accurate those reports can be.....

[DrungoHazewood]

I also remember that MacPhail couldn't trade All Star George Sherrill, can't trade All Star Brian Roberts.

All we really know is that he hasn't. For all we know the return on either player wasn't enough to justify pulling the trigger. Remember, All Star George Sherrill was about as productive as Mike DeJean after the All Star game and there just aren't that many teams anymore that'll trade you a big prospect for 30 saves from a LOOGY.

It will be an unmitigated disaster if he lets Roberts become a Free Agent and leave the Orioles with nothing but a draft pick. BRob would be a type A right?

He should be unless he's hit by a bus tomorrow. It would be two picks, and yes, he should net more than that in a trade.

[osfan83]

All I care about is tangable (W/L) progress and success. I don't really care who is on the team as long as the W/L record improves, and we contend for a play off spot in 2010 (2011) at the latest.

If we don't contend in 2010, then I need to see at the end of that season that 2011 will be our year. If at the end of September 2010 the team has shown zero W/L progress, and there are still many roster question marks...then IMO it will be time for McPhail to go.

[foxfield]

The Tex saga is over now, and what is done is done. Now as for Markakis, if the Orioles can't extend him when he's offering a more than generous proposal of 6/70, MacPhail has no business running this franchise although I already think he's not the right man to lead us back into contention in this division...

I am just curious, since "he's not the right man to lead us back into contention".....who would you hire to return us to contention?

[amateurfan]

I am just curious, since "he's not the right man to lead us back into contention".....who would you hire to return us to contention?

I keep seeing this, and I just feel it's totally misleading. His replacement is irrelevant to the job he himself does. It's a completely loaded question: Of course people here aren't going to have the intimate knowledge of scouting departments (though I would give a long hard look to Jordan) of all MLB teams, who has the desire to work for Baltimore, and what traits they would be looking for in a PBO.

I don't think this question helps to examine AM and the job he is doing. If someone is failing at a task, you don't keep them in their position simply because you don't know who to replace him with - hopefully, there will be a search committee for him, or some process.

[wildcard]

I agree with everything here except the Huff statement. Huff is a DH who's worth, on average, about 2.0 WAR. He's just another player unless you think he can play a defensive position (which all the evidence says he really can't) or that his peak will just continue on for a while despite being a below-average DH for three of the last four years.

Huff's value is that of a league average DH. With a little bonus for not having a 50 point OPS drop when he DHs, like most players. You shouldn't expect any more than 1/3 the return you'd get for Roberts. Draft picks might be a good option.

As for Markakis, yea, I'll be disappointed if he hasn't signed in the next year. But there might be a million reasons for that, and I'm not willing to hang any one person for a hypothetical situation just yet.

I agree that at the moment Huff's value is not high. With Manny, Abreu, Burrell, Giambi, Anderson, Dunn and Bradley all on the free agent market there is a glut of hitter. However as these guys sign it will be interesting to see what happens to Huff value. It may stay down but if some team gets left out of the musical chairs game, he might become more valuable.

Huff is probably more valuable to the O's then most teams. The O's can't sign players from free agency without overpaying.

We might get the chance to see Huff play a lot of 1B this year. He seemed to be better then I expected at catching balls in the dirt last year. He is still a statue without much range at 1B. Millar's improvement at 1B over the time he was with the O's gives me hope that Huff could become an average defensive 1B.