Maybe Frazier can play

[Sports Guy]

I don’t want either but I would rather have Duvall at his contract vs Frazier.

[Camden_yardbird]

The Orioles would have been in a much better place competitively last season if Urias had performed from the start of the season, but he didn't.  Maybe they didn't care because they didn't expect to be in competition for a playoff spot.  This year they do and it is much more likely Frazier could fill in offensively or defensively at multiple spots and ensure consistent offensive production than Westburg.

We at a different place in the cycle now.  Before you could try out a rookie and accept what came, but now that production needs to be consistent across the board.

Frazier gives them a lot of flexibility to do that even if he isn't consistent himself.

 

[Jammer7]

I suppose they want Ortiz and Norby to get a significantly bigger number of AAA at bats. They have their reasons for this. Absent one of these young fellas prospering from the spring competition and forcing their way into the opening day lineup, which is a great thing, there is no blocking anyone. Competition drives development and achievement. It just does. There is no argument to make against that. (That is so SG of me…lol)

Westburg does seem just about ready, but there must be something that will happen that has not revealed itself yet. I would like to know what their plan is.

I know, my thoughts are stupid, absurd and invalid. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

There is no logic behind it. It’s all about one thing…Elias signed him, so we agree with it. Thats it.

If the Yankees signed him, the same people praising the signing would be laughing at the Yankees for doing it.

And if Elias said, no I want to start Westburg, everyone doubting him would be saying that’s the right thing to do.

 

I dunno, I don't think Elias has anything to do with it, really.  I don't know if Elias has reached that point where he's a certified legend, a leader in his field and no one should second guess him.  

Maybe when it comes to drafting and getting really good talent in the pipeline, sure.  He might be on that level.  But I don't think he's proven himself as some wheeler dealer GM who hits more often than he busts.  

I think the same people who are saying the Frazier signing is fine would say the Frazier signing is fine no matter who the GM was.  Orange colored glasses.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I dunno, I don't think Elias has anything to do with it, really.  I don't know if Elias has reached that point where he's a certified legend, a leader in his field and no one should second guess him.  

Maybe when it comes to drafting and getting really good talent in the pipeline, sure.  He might be on that level.  But I don't think he's proven himself as some wheeler dealer GM who hits more often than he busts.  

I think the same people who are saying the Frazier signing is fine would say the Frazier signing is fine no matter who the GM was.  Orange colored glasses.

Elias has reached that status for some fans on here for sure.

But sure, if you want to make it about the Os doing it and less about Elias, that’s fine. 

[wildcard]

Looks to me like Elias is backing up talent.    I bet he believes that a middle infielder like Frazier will be in demand mid season because of injuries that will happen around baseball.    That he can trade Frazier for prospects.    And by that time Ortiz and Westburg will be more than ready.    

I don't think he is worried about promoting Ortiz and Westburg as soon as they are ready.   IMO its more important to him that he keeps the flow of talent coming into the farm system.   And that he gets 6+ years of player control for Westburg and Ortiz.   I think Elias is playing the long game.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Looks to me like Elias is backing up talent.    I bet he believes that a middle infielder like Frazier will be in demand mid season because of injuries that will happen around baseball.    That he can trade Frazier for prospects.    And by that time Ortiz and Westburg will be more than ready.    

I don't think he is worried about promoting Ortiz and Westburg as soon as they are ready.   IMO its more important to him that he keeps the flow of talent coming into the farm system.   And that he gets 6+ years of player control for Westburg and Ortiz.   I think Elias is playing the long game.

What kind of prospect do you think Elias can get for 3 or so months of Frazier?  

Here's what I want to know, WC...would you rather have:

1.  Frazier for one year at 8 million

or

2.  No Frazier and 8 million saved and still have Mateo, Urias, Ortiz and Westburg battling it out for starting 2B in ST? 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

There is no logic behind it. It’s all about one thing…Elias signed him, so we agree with it. Thats it.

If the Yankees signed him, the same people praising the signing would be laughing at the Yankees for doing it.

And if Elias said, no I want to start Westburg, everyone doubting him would be saying that’s the right thing to do.

 

That is terribly unfair. Attempting to understand the move and finding value in a player that has been acquired are different than agreeing with it. In the poll thread Frobby voted no with reservations about strategic fit. You HATE when people put words in your mouth, you should know better.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

That is terribly unfair. Attempting to understand the move and finding value in a player that has been acquired are different than agreeing with it. In the poll thread Frobby voted no with reservations about strategic fit. You HATE when people put words in your mouth, you should know better.

 

 

I don’t believe I am. I think there are plenty of fans, including some on here, that are sheep and will be fine with whatever Elias and the Os decide to do. That has been proven over multiple decades of this site and on social media platforms.

 

[Aristotelian]

21 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Looks to me like Elias is backing up talent.    I bet he believes that a middle infielder like Frazier will be in demand mid season because of injuries that will happen around baseball.    That he can trade Frazier for prospects.    And by that time Ortiz and Westburg will be more than ready.    

I don't think he is worried about promoting Ortiz and Westburg as soon as they are ready.   IMO its more important to him that he keeps the flow of talent coming into the farm system.   And that he gets 6+ years of player control for Westburg and Ortiz.   I think Elias is playing the long game.

I think it is more likely he wants Frazier as a stopgap so he can trade guys with more potential value (Urias, Hays, Mateo, maybe Santander). I doubt he thinks he is going to get any value for a couple months of Frazier. 

Thinking even further outside the box, if Frazier really tears it up he could be hit with a QO. Admittedly a very long shot.

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

What kind of prospect do you think Elias can get for 3 or so months of Frazier?  

Here's what I want to know, WC...would you rather have:

1.  Frazier for one year at 8 million

or

2.  No Frazier and 8 million saved and still have Mateo, Urias, Ortiz and Westburg battling it out for starting 2B in ST? 

3.  Frazier for half a season for 4 to 5m  traded for a prospect like Seth Johnson in June/July.  Then promote Ortiz or Westburg to play 2B.

[SteveA]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

I think it is more likely he wants Frazier as a stopgap so he can trade guys with more potential value (Urias, Hays, Mateo, maybe Santander). I doubt he thinks he is going to get any value for a couple months of Frazier. 

Thinking even further outside the box, if Frazier really tears it up he could be hit with a QO. Admittedly a very long shot.

That is so far outside the box you can't see the box from where that is.   The box is a tiny little dot like the Earth in that picture taken by Voyager.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I think it is more likely he wants Frazier as a stopgap so he can trade guys with more potential value (Urias, Hays, Mateo, maybe Santander). I doubt he thinks he is going to get any value for a couple months of Frazier. 

Thinking even further outside the box, if Frazier really tears it up he could be hit with a QO. Admittedly a very long shot.

O's are not offering Frazier 1/19M.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

3.  Frazier for half a season for 4 to 5m  traded for a prospect like Seth Johnson in June/July.  Then promote Ortiz or Westburg to play 2B.

Okay, that wasn't an option and no one knows for sure if he'll be able to trade Frazier for a Seth Johnson type.  If we're going to play that card, you also have to assume the inverse is a possibility which is that Frazier is so bad that Elias can't find any takers for him.

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Okay, that wasn't an option and no one knows for sure if he'll be able to trade Frazier for a Seth Johnson type.  If we're going to play that card, you also have to assume the inverse is a possibility which is that Frazier is so bad that Elias can't find any takers for him.

Sure, there is risk.