Giving Dan Duquette his due

[Tony-OH]

32 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Duquette had several strikes against him.  First, he was extremely awkward when speaking to the public or media.  Second, he was unable to convince ownership of the need to participate in the international market, particularly the Latin American market.  Finally, we were constantly in win now mode so he had limited ability to restock the farm system.  Grayson Rodriquez will likely turn out to be his best draft pick, but Grayson himself has said in interviews that the training methods under Duquette and under Elias are night and day comparisons.  And, his influence on this team is declining as more recent draftees ascend.

I liked Duquette and felt he had two hands tied behind his back at times.  But, I really can't give him a great deal of credit for this Orioles team.

I don't think it's black and white as giving him or not giving him credit. The OP rightfully said to give Duquette his due because there are several players and prospects that should play major parts in winning Orioles future. That's a true statement.

I don't know of anyone here that wishes he was still GM or that Elias won't get the vast majority of the credit if this team becomes a consistent playoff contender. 

[tntoriole]

Yes Dan was hamstrung and yes he did make some very good moves, but his abysmal failure in the post 2014 season to improve the team at all while letting 3 key performers leave while he was actively seeking the Toronto job ruined my opinion of him as GM.  He will not ever get another GM job imho. 
 

[Just Regular]

A lot of how I remember Duquette now is colored by him forbidding Bundy his cutter.    Hearing his comments on that, I hear a good-hearted, honest baseball lifer who genuinely believed Cutters slag Arms, and that he was caring well for a prize talent the same as Elias is trying to do Grayson.

Around the same time, the hedge fund types in Tampa and elsewhere were doing the math on pitch attributes, taking in the leading edge of the Driveline type stuff, and the late 10's/early 20's results speak for themselves.     It isn't hard to imagine up and comers like Elias and Mejdal hearing comments like that in the mid-2010's, and crossing them off the competition list.

He's near the top of the list of hoped for memoirs, having been an architect of the strike-stricken Expos and the guy who called Clemens over the hill (mighta been righter as a good-hearted baseball sort who couldn't fathom aging like that!) along with his Orioles stuff.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

A lot of how I remember Duquette now is colored by him forbidding Bundy his cutter.    Hearing his comments on that, I hear a good-hearted, honest baseball lifer who genuinely believed Cutters slag Arms, and that he was caring well for a prize talent the same as Elias is trying to do Grayson.

 

It was only in the minors.

Even if he didn't have an issue with the cutter they should have limited it because he needed to develop his other pitches.

[AnythingO's]

3 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Yes Dan was hamstrung and yes he did make some very good moves, but his abysmal failure in the post 2014 season to improve the team at all while letting 3 key performers leave while he was actively seeking the Toronto job ruined my opinion of him as GM.  He will not ever get another GM job imho. 
 

The bolded statement gets repeated here frequently but it is wrong. Mike Rogers, the deposed head of Rogers Communication, approached DD about being head of baseball operations which includes managing the Rogers Center. DD had just been named GM or Exec of the year and an executive VP of the NYY (friend of Rogers) recommended that Mike R contact DD (collusion). The job was a huge promotion. Rogers had just been deposed by his family from running Rogers Comm. so it was a power play to get "his guy" over MLB operations even though the position wasn't going to be vacant for another year. DD told PA about it, as he should have, and PA turned it into a circus. DD was done as an effective GM after that

[tntoriole]

15 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

The bolded statement gets repeated here frequently but it is wrong. Mike Rogers, the deposed head of Rogers Communication, approached DD about being head of baseball operations which includes managing the Rogers Center. DD had just been named GM or Exec of the year and an executive VP of the NYY (friend of Rogers) recommended that Mike R contact DD (collusion). The job was a huge promotion. Rogers had just been deposed by his family from running Rogers Comm. so it was a power play to get "his guy" over MLB operations even though the position wasn't going to be vacant for another year. DD told PA about it, as he should have, and PA turned it into a circus. DD was done as an effective GM after that

Are you DD’s press agent? Lol. That is an interesting take but I suspect DD knew full well what Angelos reaction would be (who wouldn’t) but went forward anyway.   

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Are you DD’s press agent? Lol. That is an interesting take but I suspect DD knew full well what Angelos reaction would be (who wouldn’t) but went forward anyway.   

If DD knew full well what Angelos would do, then why did DD pursue the job and ask Angelos permission?

[LookinUp]

To me, DD was what my kids would call a NPC. Nonplayer Character.

International free agents? Nope. PA won't allow it.

Build your team? Buck will pick his guys.

Resign your own guys? Nope, PA wants Davis, Hardy, etc. Let Machado go.

Draft? That's Rajsich's job.

Player development? Go ahead, but you don't know what you're doing.

I feel like DD was probably a net negative or neutral at best. He wasn't Sid Thrift, but he's not half the GM that Elias is.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

To me, DD was what my kids would call a NPC. Nonplayer Character.

International free agents? Nope. PA won't allow it.

Build your team? Buck will pick his guys.

Resign your own guys? Nope, PA wants Davis, Hardy, etc. Let Machado go.

Draft? That's Rajsich's job.

Player development? Go ahead, but you don't know what you're doing.

I feel like DD was probably a net negative or neutral at best. He wasn't Sid Thrift, but he's not half the GM that Elias is.

Chen and Kim were both International free agents under Dan.

[LookinUp]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Chen and Kim were both International free agents under Dan.

You know what I mean.

[AnythingO's]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

If DD knew full well what Angelos would do, then why did DD pursue the job and ask Angelos permission?

I have no idea what DD knew or not. What I said about Mike Rogers is true and out there on the web because that's where I found it. Someone associated with the NYY recommended that Mike Rogers talk to DD. Why would DD do it, well it was a huge promotion both in authority and 2-3X more money. Until this situation no MLB team has stood in the way of an executive getting a promotion to go to another organization.  DD was not approached by the BJs, he was approached by Mike Rogers.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

I have no idea what DD knew or not. What I said about Mike Rogers is true and out there on the web because that's where I found it. Someone associated with the NYY recommended that Mike Rogers talk to DD. Why would DD do it, well it was a huge promotion both in authority and 2-3X more money. Until this situation no MLB team has stood in the way of an executive getting a promotion to go to another organization.  DD was not approached by the BJs, he was approached by Mike Rogers.

You and I are on the same page.

[AnythingO's]

2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Are you DD’s press agent? Lol. That is an interesting take but I suspect DD knew full well what Angelos reaction would be (who wouldn’t) but went forward anyway.   

This from the Toronto Sun and correction it was Eddie Rogers, I said Mike (going from memory)

Eddie Rogers, deputy chairman of Rogers Communications, with his sports consultant Roger Rai, have been head-over-heels, in full bloom with Duquette since early November. Rogers and Rai want to bring Duquette to town to replace president Paul Beeston.

ESPN broke the news on Dec. 7 about Rogers having interest in Duquette as the winter meetings began in San Diego.

[AnythingO's]

2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Are you DD’s press agent? Lol. That is an interesting take but I suspect DD knew full well what Angelos reaction would be (who wouldn’t) but went forward anyway.   

This from the Toronto Star

Rumours of the Blue Jays’ pursuit of Baltimore Orioles GM Dan Duquette as a replacement for team president and CEO Paul Beeston re-emerged Wednesday with a series of conflicting reports from a variety of sources.

Angelos admitted to the paper that Jays’ ownership, Rogers Communications, has expressed interest in Duquette.

An accountant who was the first employee ever hired by the Blue Jays in 1976, Beeston rose to become team president in 1989, staying on until 1997, when he was tapped by outgoing MLB commissioner Bud Selig to serve a five-year term as MLB president. He returned to the role of Jays president in 2008 and hired Anthopoulos a year later.

His contract technically expired at the end of October but Beeston — who turns 70 in June — has said on multiple occasions he has often worked without a contract and will stay on for as long as Rogers wants him.

The persistent rumours suggest either that a faction within Rogers is looking to nudge Beeston out, or that the company is simply preparing for life after the long-time president and its early recruiting efforts were clumsy rather than spiteful. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between.

[tntoriole]

6 hours ago, RZNJ said:

If DD knew full well what Angelos would do, then why did DD pursue the job and ask Angelos permission?

Acting out