Giving Dan Duquette his due

[btdart20]

33 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The team he inherited had solid position player talent but awful pitching. He helped to build the staff that created a turnaround in 12. Then Manny comes up in 12 and he and David pop in 13. 

Agree in general, except I'd say that the team he inherited did have some pitching that they didn't capitalize on for various reasons (development, injury, usage, trade...).  They had Arrieta, Tillman, Britton, and some contributors like Brach, O'Day and Johnson.  A pipeline that included Eduardo Rodriguez and Bundy.  And drafted Gausman and Hader.  

DD also forfeited the #17 overall pick by signing Jimenez.  Then doubled down on Cruz.  The traded Josh Hader and a comp pick for Norris.  It's hard to draft well when you're trading away draft picks.  DD (and maybe PA's) focus was primarily on the ML level with little support to do any real spending.  The approach was doomed to fail no matter what DD did short of facing the wrath of PA for not building a winning ML team.  Which ultimately crumbled and needed a major rebuild...  

But we had Ron Flattery!

[btdart20]

19 minutes ago, sevastras said:

This could be a completely different conversation if Manny doesn’t go down in 2013 and 2014 at the ends of the season and then Wieters with TJ and CD with Aderall.  I also wonder about the “cavalry” and Bucks TTP crap. 

True story...

[Too Tall]

Don't forget Nick's broken wrist. Man, I hate the Yankees.

[Bahama O's Fan]

30 minutes ago, sevastras said:

This could be a completely different conversation if Manny doesn’t go down in 2013 and 2014 at the ends of the season and then Wieters with TJ and CD with Aderall.  I also wonder about the “cavalry” and Bucks TTP crap. 

If Manny, Wieters and Davis never go down, we win the World Series in 2014, Dan gets an extension and may even still be the GM today, Pete opens up the checkbook, having gotten a taste of one championship and the dominance continues. 

[osfan83]

I think DD was exactly what we needed when he showed up. We went 15 years always looking to the future, and Dan/Buck stated that the goal was to win now. Sure they had faults, but from 2012-2016 (and maybe even 2017) this team had a legit shot at WS success. It's the only time in the last 24 years we could say that. 

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, btdart20 said:

Agree in general, except I'd say that the team he inherited did have some pitching that they didn't capitalize on for various reasons (development, injury, usage, trade...).  They had Arrieta, Tillman, Britton, and some contributors like Brach, O'Day and Johnson.  A pipeline that included Eduardo Rodriguez and Bundy.  And drafted Gausman and Hader.  

DD also forfeited the #17 overall pick by signing Jimenez.  Then doubled down on Cruz.  The traded Josh Hader and a comp pick for Norris.  It's hard to draft well when you're trading away draft picks.  DD (and maybe PA's) focus was primarily on the ML level with little support to do any real spending.  The approach was doomed to fail no matter what DD did short of facing the wrath of PA for not building a winning ML team.  Which ultimately crumbled and needed a major rebuild...  

But we had Ron Flattery!

DD traded for Brach and drafted Gausman and Hader. I get your point though.  
 

They clearly had a window and by Orioles standards went all in. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, Too Tall said:

Don't forget Nick's broken wrist. Man, I hate the Yankees.

Even worse CC Sabathia tried to make the case Markakis fouled off the pitch instead of getting his hamate bone shattered. 

[SilverRocket]

Duquette was a good old-school GM, better than the previous few we had, but at the end of the day he was in an era were the good front offices were getting way ahead technologically, and he was in the wrong decade. He needed to hire an experienced team for analytics, but instead, gave the job to an intern who understandably asked where the database was. That's just not how to run an MLB team in the years that he ran it, and while there were good years on the field, it put us well behind.

[Tony-OH]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

Good scouting report.  

He had a terrible baseball name and an ugly girlfriend so teams passed.

[LA2]

11 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Didn't he have Trumbo already signed as a replacement for Davis?

YES, I was going to post that. Thanks.

[Orioles0615]

Without Dan we wouldn't be here. He led us to 2018 disaster which led us to a rebuild. 

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Orioles0615 said:

Without Dan we wouldn't be here. He led us to 2018 disaster which led us to a rebuild. 

Even if you are not a fan of Dan, this is wrong.  There was obviously plenty of blame to go around, but Dan had less power than Brady Anderson by '18.  I mean Buck practically brought back Tillman on his own.  

DD deserves blame and credit.  But in 2018, he was leading very little.  Buck and Brady had way too much control.  The blame for 2018 belongs to Peter Angelos.

Interesting that this may have been the time when he was losing his own abilities.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

He had a terrible baseball name and an ugly girlfriend so teams passed.

Ugly girlfriend means he has no confidence. It's science.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

16 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Even if you are not a fan of Dan, this is wrong.  There was obviously plenty of blame to go around, but Dan had less power than Brady Anderson by '18.  I mean Buck practically brought back Tillman on his own.  

DD deserves blame and credit.  But in 2018, he was leading very little.  Buck and Brady had way too much control.  The blame for 2018 belongs to Peter Angelos.

Interesting that this may have been the time when he was losing his own abilities.

I believe Buck was also responsible for the Colby Rasmus debacle in 2018. Buck tried to recruit Rasmus a few years earlier with no luck, but got him at the end of his career after he quit on the Rays the year prior.

[foxfield]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I believe Buck was also responsible for the Colby Rasmus debacle in 2018. Buck tried to recruit Rasmus a few years earlier with no luck, but got him at the end of his career after he quit on the Rays the year prior.

Buck wanted nothing to do with a rebuild.  Don't really blame him except that is what was needed.

I still think in hind site this all fell apart as PA was falling apart.  We just didn't know it at the time.