Giving Dan Duquette his due

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

He kind of did. He was the GM when they released Christian Walker.  8.8 WAR in 545 career games.  It happens.

Sure, but I never got the he's infallible vibe from Dan supporters like we see from Elias Stans.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

It's wild... NO one thought Walker was much more than, like, a Nevin type. At least that's how I remember it. 

Like Yaz, his first taste of ML success came at 28 years old.  You never know.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Like Yaz, his first taste of ML success came at 28 years old.  You never know.

I think I was the only one here that didn't like the Jonah Heim trade. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, but I never got the he's infallible vibe from Dan supporters like we see from Elias Stans.

You get a lot of vibes.  I think it’s time to check your vibometer.   I think it’s faulty.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think I was the only one here that didn't like the Jonah Heim trade. 

My memory fails me.  It wasn’t exactly like trading Machado.

Jonah Heim was putting up a .643 OPS at 21 in High A when he was traded.   What can I say?    I didn’t realize you were that dialed into the minors at the time.  You don’t comment on too many A+ players you like these days.   I’m getting deja vu.   I feel like we’ve had this conversation before. Scary.

Edited February 8, 2023 by RZNJ

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

You get a lot of vibes.  I think it’s time to check your vibometer.   I think it’s faulty.

Your just jealous because your vibe-less.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

My memory fails me.  It wasn’t exactly like trading Machado.

The O's traded him to the Rays for Pearce who promptly got injured when Buck tried to put him into the outfield.

[btdart20]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Maybe Dan wouldn't have gave away a guy that has put up 9.5 rWAR in four seasons.

It just kills some people to not give Elias credit for everything.

Anything for a bag of herb...

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

It's wild... NO one thought Walker was much more than, like, a Nevin type. At least that's how I remember it. 

I recall there being a debate between keeping Mancini or Walker as the 1B?  If so, I think we chose the right one.  Even if he missed some time.  No clue what the stats say, but I think I'd do it over again if we had a redo button.  Mancini provided a lot for the team and city fighting for his life.   

[SemperFi]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:56 AM, Frobby said:

I see Duquette as a mixed bag, neither all good nor all bad.  I do find it interesting that, despite having some success in his various stops, he went 9 years without a job in MLB after Boston fired him, and he’s been unable to land another position in the 4+ years since being fired by the Orioles.  That suggests he’s not the easiest guy to work with, regardless of whatever other merits he has.  At this point, I think time probably has passed him by.   

That is the most telling piece, his inability to find another job in baseball.  I knew him a little and found him to be a very nice man but as Frobby noted he was behind the times.  I got to see the huge difference in player development and analytics between regimes and it was telling.  Just watching the assets other teams had allocated versus the Orioles was shocking.  I would quess a lot of that is Peter, but Dan's inability to stand up to him speaks to his ineffectiveness as a GM. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, SemperFi said:

That is the most telling piece, his inability to find another job in baseball.  I knew him a little and found him to be a very nice man but as Frobby noted he was behind the times.  I got to see the huge difference in player development and analytics between regimes and it was telling.  Just watching the assets other teams had allocated versus the Orioles was shocking.  I would quess a lot of that is Peter, but Dan's inability to stand up to him speaks to his ineffectiveness as a GM. 

I think baseball GM skews younger than composable positions outside the sports-entertainment market.

[Frobby]

47 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, but I never got the he's infallible vibe from Dan supporters like we see from Elias Stans.

None of these guys are infallible.  The Astros released J.D. Martinez.  

It would be an interesting exercise to identify each team’s worst release/low level trade. 
 

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Maybe Dan wouldn't have gave away a guy that has put up 9.5 rWAR in four seasons.

It just kills some people to not give Elias credit for everything.

By the way, since you teased me about learning a new word last week it only seems fair to help you with your grammar.   It should be “maybe Dan wouldn’t have given away”.   Nobody’s perfect!

[NCRaven]

Duquette had several strikes against him.  First, he was extremely awkward when speaking to the public or media.  Second, he was unable to convince ownership of the need to participate in the international market, particularly the Latin American market.  Finally, we were constantly in win now mode so he had limited ability to restock the farm system.  Grayson Rodriquez will likely turn out to be his best draft pick, but Grayson himself has said in interviews that the training methods under Duquette and under Elias are night and day comparisons.  And, his influence on this team is declining as more recent draftees ascend.

I liked Duquette and felt he had two hands tied behind his back at times.  But, I really can't give him a great deal of credit for this Orioles team.

[Tony-OH]

8 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

2014 was our year. I agree with the sentiment that we’d view DD as a legend if we win the WS. We lost four games to KC by a combined six runs without Machado, MW, and CD. O’day took two L’s that series. Crazy. 
 

DD also didn’t pull the trigger on a Lester for Hunter Harvey trade that year. 
 

It seemed like after 2014 we were chasing. The Toronto fiasco really messed us up too. 

This can not be under sold. It also goes to talk about our ownership and how that situation got out of hand. Of course that led to the sinking the organization into the abyss until Elias was hired to lead it out.

[tntoriole]

7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or let him go to Toronto.

That’s the only reason he didn’t fire him