The Rotation

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

"The mental reset and getting back to the farm was helpful, and so was his work with the O’s pitching coaches on his breaking pitches. They felt the shape of his slider and curveball were becoming too similar, and he needed to fix that."

It's almost like the minors is a great place to develop. Its almost like the entire minor league system is designed to help a player fix/work on things while doing that in an environment where you can vs a results only matter situation like the big leagues. 

Bradish had 10 starts in the majors last year.  He had 7 great innings against the Cardinals where he struck out 11.   His slider had pretty good shape then.  He slumped, got beat up, whatever.   He needed a reset.

Rodriguez just needs innings.  ML innings.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The innings will occur either way. It’s not like they won’t consider innings in the minors.

I get that. My point is they are trying to win this year. This isn’t Jake Arrieta in 2011. 
 

You can be more forgiving when you aren’t contending.  

Edited March 19, 2023 by eddie83

[Sports Guy]

Just now, eddie83 said:

I get that 

Then why mention the innings as a justification for sending him down?

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Then why mention the innings as a justification for sending him down?

I inadvertently hit submit right away. Tried to explain myself above.  

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It’s debatable which approach is better from the standpoint of getting Rodriguez where he needs to be.   But if he’s not ready to be one of our five best out of the gate, then what is best for the team?  In any event, I reject the idea that if Rodriguez continues to pitch as he has his last two outings, and is sent down to begin the year, the primary motivating reason is to manipulate his service time.  

I agree that it won't be the "primary reason" but it could be part of the holistic approach that's better for the long term success of the team. Rodriguez is giving Elias every reason to send him down if he can't find his breaking stuff. As we saw yesterday, Rodriguez is getting hit hard right now once he gets away from the change. 

I realize we all want to see Rodriguez, but if he gest sent down for a few starts, works on his breaking stuff, finds it, comes back in late April early May, and the Orioles gain the extra time, it's a win-win, especially since they have legitimate 5th starter options in Wells and Voth. 

I still think Rodrigue is going to be a stud because I've seen what he looks like when everything is working. But let's say he gets beat around for a first 2-3 starts because he doesn't have his breaking stuff and the Orioles lose those three games vs maybe winning two out three with Wells or Voth. If the Orioles think Wells and Voth give them the better chance to win until Rodriguez finds his breaking stuff AND they gain the service time, it seems like the way to go to me when you look at it holistically.

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Bradish had 10 starts in the majors last year.  He had 7 great innings against the Cardinals where he struck out 11.   His slider had pretty good shape then.  He slumped, got beat up, whatever.   He needed a reset.

Rodriguez just needs innings.  ML innings.

This is about commanding his stuff. If they think he can better accomplish that in a minor league environment why is that a bad thing? This looks to me to be about stuff not learning curve. I’m sure he will have stretches where he gets hit around. Right now his stuff looks off. 
 

 

All that said once again I’m hoping he is on the team.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I inadvertently hit submit right away. Tried to explain myself above.  

The problem I have with that is that you aren’t replacing him with anyone good outside of maybe Wells but he may be more needed in the pen.

He is your 5th starter right now. Most 5th starters are giving you a 5+ ERA.

How he looks is what is important. He’s getting a lot of rave reviews from Adley and now McCann this camp. He is missing bats and getting Ks. The velo is great.

Im sure if the standard is that he is throwing all 4 pitches at a high level at one time, it’s unlikely he’s ever called up. 
 

At the end of the day, will it really matter if they send him down for 2-4 weeks? No, probably not. I just think he needs to further himself against the best in the world and not guys he can just overpower.

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

This is about commanding his stuff. If they think he can better accomplish that in a minor league environment why is that a bad thing? This looks to me to be about stuff not learning curve. I’m sure he will have stretches where he gets hit around. Right now his stuff looks off. 
 

 

All that said once again I’m hoping he is on the team.  

Some pitchers take a little longer to find their stuff in the spring. Plus, Rodriguez had trouble finding his breaking stuff when he came back from the oblique last year so maybe he's just a guy that needs a little more time? If that time gains you service time long term plus you think Wells/Voth can be good or better than Rodriguez in the first few starts, makes sense to me.

[Aristotelian]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree that it won't be the "primary reason" but it could be part of the holistic approach that's better for the long term success of the team. Rodriguez is giving Elias every reason to send him down if he can't find his breaking stuff. As we saw yesterday, Rodriguez is getting hit hard right now once he gets away from the change. 

I realize we all want to see Rodriguez, but if he gest sent down for a few starts, works on his breaking stuff, finds it, comes back in late April early May, and the Orioles gain the extra time, it's a win-win, especially since they have legitimate 5th starter options in Wells and Voth. 

I still think Rodrigue is going to be a stud because I've seen what he looks like when everything is working. But let's say he gets beat around for a first 2-3 starts because he doesn't have his breaking stuff and the Orioles lose those three games vs maybe winning two out three with Wells or Voth. If the Orioles think Wells and Voth give them the better chance to win until Rodriguez finds his breaking stuff AND they gain the service time, it seems like the way to go to me when you look at it holistically.

From what I saw yesterday (missed the first inning) it was as much about fastball location as breaking stuff. He was falling behind then missing in the zone and getting hammered.

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So he’s not a 4 pitch pitcher now but he will be 2 week into the season?  Lol

He’s a four pitch pitcher normally, based on my looks at him in 2021 and early 2022.   But right now he’s having trouble commanding the curve, and to a lesser extent the slider.   Most of his attempts to throw a curve yesterday resulted in pitched a full foot above the strike zone. He had no feel at all for it.   That’s not the Rodriguez I’ve seen in the past.  

So yes, it’s entirely possible that his command of his breaking stuff needs time to kick in, and will with a few MiL starts.   

All this sounds like I’m advocating starting him in the minors.   I’m not advocating that yet.   But if his next start looks similar to yesterday’s, I think it’s an option the O’s will have to consider.  Hopefully Rodriguez pitches better next time out and makes it a non-issue.  

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

He’s a four pitch pitcher normally, based on my looks at him in 2021 and early 2022.   But right now he’s having trouble commanding the curve, and to a lesser extent the slider.   Most of his attempts to throw a curve yesterday resulted in pitched a full foot above the strike zone. He had no feel at all for it.   That’s not the Rodriguez I’ve seen in the past.  

So yes, it’s entirely possible that his command of his breaking stuff needs time to kick in, and will with a few MiL starts.   

All this sounds like I’m advocating starting him in the minors.   I’m not advocating that yet.   But if his next start looks similar to yesterday’s, I think it’s an option the O’s will have to consider.  Hopefully Rodriguez pitches better next time out and makes it a non-issue.  

 

And that command can’t happen with better coaches and in the majors?

Has that been an issue all spring?  What about work on the side?  How has that looked?

Roch has reported all spring as if it’s a foregone conclusion he’s in the rotation. Elias has basically made it a foregone conclusion with his words. Word out of camp is that his stuff has been great and has elite upside.

We have heard he is working on things. Was he doing that yesterday? Is he playing around with things to get ready? 
 

 

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

From what I saw yesterday (missed the first inning) it was as much about fastball location as breaking stuff. He was falling behind then missing in the zone and getting hammered.

Yeah, that's why I said his command of everything was really off. I saw just about every one of his AAA starts last year and know what his stuff and command looks like when he's on, and the guy I saw yesterday was a shell of that. The velocity was there but he just doesn't have his feel yet. 

I'm not worried about him at all though because he will find it at some point again and he be pitching every 5 days everyday for the Orioles at some point this season. Missing a few starts in April to find it won't kill him at all. 

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s getting a lot of rave reviews from Adley and now McCann this camp. He is missing bats and getting Ks. The velo is great.

You of all people are very aware that nobody ever says anything negative to the press in spring training.  Everything is sunshine and roses.  

As to the velo, is it great?   I didn’t see any radar gun readings yesterday.  At the previous game, he was sitting 95-96, touching 97.  That compares to sitting 97-98 in earlier outings, and when I’ve seen him on prior occasions.   

He’s definitely getting his K’s this spring, so no issues there.  

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

You of all people are very aware that nobody ever says anything negative to the press in spring training.  Everything is sunshine and roses.  

As to the velo, is it great?   I didn’t see any radar gun readings yesterday.  At the previous game, he was sitting 95-96, touching 97.  That compares to sitting 97-98 in earlier outings, and when I’ve seen him on prior occasions.   

He’s definitely getting his K’s this spring, so no issues there.  

 

No, they don’t say anything negative but they also don’t have to say anything at all.  He has 14Ks in 11 innings and has been missing bats. Think it’s pretty obvious the stuff has been good.

The 7 walks are the issue. Obviously command has been suspect at times but again, we don’t know what he’s working on. In one of his previous starts,  Adley talked about how he was working on some things. That can lead to some of these command issues and it’s obviously something very common in spring training.

[Sports Guy]

https://www.masnsports.com/orioles-rss/mccann-on-rodriguez
 

Sounds like he just needs to calm down a little.