McCann activated Stowers optioned

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

There's a lot of "I bet" and "I believe" in this thread.  That's great.  That's what message boards are for and the kind of discussions we all enjoy.

However, as I said earlier in the thread, the people who make the decisions clearly have very different opinions on these matters than their critics.  And frankly, they're in much better position to know.

Well then.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Those people have turned a 47 win team into an 83 win team with a very bright forward.  Everybody makes mistakes.  Not everybody does that.

It’s not that hard to turn garbage into mediocrity.(last years team wasn’t mediocre, I’m just saying it’s not hard to go up when you have hit rock bottom…on purpose)

In my eyes, they took a 60-65 win team and made them an 83 win team(still an accomplishment)…but I also believe they made that 83 win team an 80 win team and have to show they can take them to the next level.

Love so much of what this org has done on every level outside of the major league team and my lack of confidence in ownership doesn’t get me overly excited that they are going to huild a juggernaut unless all the young talent hits, which almost never happens.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

31 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Again.  2 weeks.  162 games.  You can call me out and I’ll eat crow if that is still the case in July. 

It’s not 2 weeks. It’s last year, multiple offseasons, keeping players down when you don’t need to, etc…it’s a pattern.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

It’s not that hard to turn garbage into mediocrity.

In my eyes, they took a 60-65 win team and made them an 83 win team(still an accomplishment)…but I also believe they made that 83 win team an 80 win team and have to show they can take them to the next level.

Love so much of what this org has done on every level outside of the major league team and my lack of confidence in ownership doesn’t get me overly excited that they are going to huild a juggernaut unless all the young talent hits, which almost never happens.

It's fair to say they're not infallible.  It's fair to say they're not perfect.  It's fair to disagree with individual  moves, even while overall supporting the direction of the franchise.

But we should be willing to admit our own infallibility and imperfection at the same time.  "I think" or "I bet" Stowers is better than Hays is an opinion that isn't based on much besides "feelings."  There's no real proof of that.  And, all the people paid to make that evaluation, clearly don't agree.

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

It's fair to say they're not infallible.  It's fair to say they're not perfect.  It's fair to disagree with individual  moves, even while overall supporting the direction of the franchise.

But we should be willing to admit our own infallibility and imperfection at the same time.  "I think" or "I bet" Stowers is better than Hays is an opinion that isn't based on much besides "feelings."  There's no real proof of that.  And, all the people paid to make that evaluation, clearly don't agree.

I mean, .715 and a whiff rate that's in line with what Hays brings to the table shouldn't be too hard to replicate.

[MurphDogg]

My preference would be to trade Hays or Santander for a credible pitching prospect or two and pencil Stowers into the lineup for the next three months. If Stowers is bad, at least he will have gotten an opportunity and he will be replaced by Kjerstad or Cowser by next season. If he is good, then you have the flexibility to trade an additional outfielder.

The outfield situation is crowded and will only get more crowded as Cowser, Kjerstad, and Connor Norby (who I expect to be a better version of Terrin Vavra (playable at second, third, and corner-outfield) force their way into the picture.

The difference between Stowers and Hays or Santander in the outfield is unlikely to be more than a win or two and with Santander and Hays already in the arbitration system, it also maximizes financial flexibility, seems like a no-brainer.

Edited April 10, 2023 by MurphDogg

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I mean, .715 and a whiff rate that's in line with what Hays brings to the table shouldn't be too hard to replicate.

Again, his OPS was 1000 two days ago.  Would you be so quick to bolster your argument using his current OPS two days ago?

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'll be honest, none of really know what kind of player Stowers will be at the major league level. What we do know is he hit well enough at AAA to be given that chance, and it's not like the Orioles have three all-stars in the outfield currently. 

No, but they have three guys with pretty solid track records.  It seems like in the early going, Hyde/the front office have wanted to get that group going rather than spread the playing time around.  Of course, they did give starts to McKenna and Vavra that could have gone to Stowers, too.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Again, his OPS was 1000 two days ago.  Would you be so quick to bolster your argument using his current OPS two days ago?

I'm going off what he did last year and this year, hotshot.  

[Pickles]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

I'm going off what he did last year and this year, hotshot.  

Wny not use the 2021 number 770?  It's relatively the same OPS+ as last year.

You're gaming numbers to make your argument look better.  It's a normal thing to do, but let's not act like that's not exactly what you were doing, hotshot.

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

There's a lot of "I bet" and "I believe" in this thread.  That's great.  That's what message boards are for and the kind of discussions we all enjoy.

However, as I said earlier in the thread, the people who make the decisions clearly have very different opinions on these matters than their critics.  And frankly, they're in much better position to know.

P.S. I'll add that yeah, Hays' OPS is 715 now.  Two days ago it was close to 1000.  Would your bet seem so reasonable then?

If you are always going to fall on this as your "proof," you are adding nothing to the conversation. 

I hate to tell you, but Elias has not proven to be infallible. Sig's computer actually has proven multiple times that it has failed. 

Now, you can have an opinion that you want, including just believing whatever the Orioles do is the absolute right thing because they are the professionals, but you are adding nothing to the discussion when you do so. 

Now, if you want to actually give some evidence why you believe the way you do, great, if not, you are doing nothing but being a Facebook or twitter like fan and that's not really what we do here and I think you know that.

I've been running this board for 25 years and I've heard that same argument for EVERY SINGLE GM. Guess what, they are were eventually fired.

I'm a fan of how Elias and his team have brought in the use of analytics and technologies for development and his scouting team and draft selections, but he was widely given very low marks for his first offseason when the team should be competing and his roster assessments have been lacking. 

So I get it, your a big Elias guy and believe his decision must be correct because he paid a lot of money to make those decisions. But here at the hangout, we will have a lot of smart people who have been analyzing baseball for a long time. That does not make us infallible either, but I will say one thing, using crowd sourcing across a large group of people with experience is not a bad thing to add into your equation. 

By the way, what information do you think they have that we don't? Sig's computer program? What has Sig's computer program done to win ball games at the major league level? 

You do know that it was widely known that Sig was going to be let go by the Astros even before Elias got the Orioles job, right? 

You also know that other teams have their own Sig's, right? The Orioles are not two steps in front of everyone.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

12 minutes ago, Pickles said:

It's fair to say they're not infallible.  It's fair to say they're not perfect.  It's fair to disagree with individual  moves, even while overall supporting the direction of the franchise.

But we should be willing to admit our own infallibility and imperfection at the same time.  "I think" or "I bet" Stowers is better than Hays is an opinion that isn't based on much besides "feelings."  There's no real proof of that.  And, all the people paid to make that evaluation, clearly don't agree.

https://www.milb.com/stats/2022?split=vl&page=6

Here's proof he OPS'd .977 vs. lefties last year in Norfolk. 

There has to be something else going on here, like he's a jackass or he insulted Hyde or ... who knows. For an organization that is so advanced with metrics, the anti-Stowers thing is odd to say the least.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Hank Scorpio

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

https://www.milb.com/stats/2022?split=vl&page=6

Here's proof he OPS'd .977 vs. lefties last year in Norfolk. 

What do you think Hays would have OPS'd last year in Norfolk?

[foxfield]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Maybe Stowers is overrated on here.  Is that not a possibility?

Don't get me wrong, I'm over Santander and I'm over Hays.  I'd prefer to see Stowers over either of them, but I don't think the talent gap between the three is necessarily that huge, which makes the outrage over the treatment of Stowers a bit more perplexing.  Sure, these three players have different skill sets and yes, I'd agree that Stowers has more upside since he's younger and Santander/Hays are what they are at this point.  

But people are acting like the Orioles just demoted the second coming of Mickey Mantle, that Stowers is heads and shoulders above the other two.  And like I said, I'm tired of Hays and Santander but I'm not sure that Stowers is some kind of automatic upgrade that only people on the OH can see and that the Orioles management is completely oblivious to.

I agree with this and I will also say that this is the product of having a deeper team.  This will sort itself out, but its not gonna happen in April.  And whether it is due to injuries or trades, the lineup is gonna change.

I get that everyone is impatient.  If Darrell Hernaiz can bring back a starting pitcher with years of control, I would like to think some of these players are going to get converted to something else.  I am not worried about Stowers, he will get his shot.

The Orioles have some pretty good offensive players coming and Stowers is just one of many.  But the Orioles need better pitching.  

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Wny not use the 2021 number 770?  It's relatively the same OPS+ as last year.

You're gaming numbers to make your argument look better.  It's a normal thing to do, but let's not act like that's not exactly what you were doing, hotshot.

Cause that was two years ago and not as recent?