McCann activated Stowers optioned

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

It's fair to say they're not infallible.  It's fair to say they're not perfect.  It's fair to disagree with individual  moves, even while overall supporting the direction of the franchise.

But we should be willing to admit our own infallibility and imperfection at the same time.  "I think" or "I bet" Stowers is better than Hays is an opinion that isn't based on much besides "feelings."  There's no real proof of that.  And, all the people paid to make that evaluation, clearly don't agree.

Well, personally I am not saying that about Stowers. I have my own issues and doubts about him. That said, he has earned the right to get 400+ at bats this year and Hays has earned the right to have at bats taken away from him and his playing time reduced.

Personally, I think there is a very good chance that none of these guys are our future OFers but I think they all deserve 400ish at bats right now and just let’s see how things go in terms of health, development, etc..

To me, this goes back to the point Tony was making. For Hyde to not be able to figure out how to use all of these guys and how to use them properly is alarming.

Im a Hyde guy. I like him but this is definitely concerning to me. 
 

My argument has been that of these guys have proven both reliability and production over multiple full seasons and only Santander has done it for one full season at all.

Mountcastle is part of this discussion as well.

Mullins, not as much because of the lack of CFers right now.

But between Hays, Stowers, Santander and Mountcastle, there is no reason they can’t all get sufficient at bats…except for the fact that Frazier signing throws a big problem into this whole thing because you then have too many IFers and those guys need time and at bats too.

But even with Frazier here, this issue can get figured out and the team isn’t doing it and it just doesn’t make sense.

 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

What do you think Hays would have OPS'd last year in Norfolk?

I agree, I'd prefer to have had Hays in Norfolk last year to see the results, too.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If you are always going to fall on this as your "proof," you are adding nothing to the conversation. 

I hate to tell you, but Elias has not proven to be infallible. Sig's computer actually has proven multiple times that it has failed. 

Now, you can have an opinion that you want, including just believing whatever the Orioles do is the absolute right thing because they are the professionals, but you are adding nothing to the discussion when you do so. 

Now, if you want to actually give some evidence why you believe the way you do, great, if not, you are doing nothing but being a Facebook or twitter like fan and that's not really what we do here and I think you know that.

I've been running this board for 25 years and I've heard that same argument for EVERY SINGLE GM. Guess what, they are were eventually fired.

I'm a fan of how Elias and his team have brought in the use of analytics and technologies for development and his scouting team and draft selections, but he was widely given very low marks for his first offseason when the team should be competing and his roster assessments have been lacking. 

So I get it, your a big Elias guy and believe his decision must be correct because he paid a lot of money to make those decisions. But here at the hangout, we will have a lot of smart people who have been analyzing baseball for a long time. That does not make us infallible either, but I will say one thing, using crowd sourcing across a large group of people with experience is not a bad thing to add into your equation. 

By the way, what information do you think they have that we don't? Sig's computer program? What has Sig's computer program done to win ball games at the major league level? 

You do know that it was widely known that Sig was going to be let go by the Astros even before Elias got the Orioles job, right? 

You also know that other teams have their own Sig's, right? The Orioles are not two steps in front of everyone.

 

You're not really saying anything I disagree with here.

Stowers vs. Hays is largely an opinion matter.  I don't even take umbrage with the idea that Stowers could outperform Hays right now.  I don't agree with it.  There's no real evidence of it.  But as an opinion, I don't think it is completely out there.

I DO take umbrage with the idea that playing Hays or Santander over Stowers is "stupid" (not your words) or somehow indefensible.

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, but they have three guys with pretty solid track records.  It seems like in the early going, Hyde/the front office have wanted to get that group going rather than spread the playing time around.  Of course, they did give starts to McKenna and Vavra that could have gone to Stowers, too.  

I'm not hating on those three, but their track records don't scream "I must play everyday and never sit." Obviously you are right, the Orioles have chosen to give the vast amount of OF playing time to those three and then used Vavra and McKenna as their backups instead of Stowers. 

But my biggest issue to all of this is if they knew they were going to go that route, why not keep Cordero or O'hearn and send Stowers back to play everyday in AAA? 

And now, they're going to keep Bemboom on the roster and as a 3rd catcher? 

[Pickles]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

I'm not hating on those three, but their track records don't scream "I must play everyday and never sit." Obviously you are right, the Orioles have chosen to give the vast amount of OF playing time to those three and then used Vavra and McKenna as their backups instead of Stowers. 

But my biggest issue to all of this is if they knew they were going to go that route, why not keep Cordero or O'hearn and send Stowers back to play everyday in AAA? 

And now, they're going to keep Bemboom on the roster and as a 3rd catcher? 

I think your first point is more than fair.  If they were going to just send Stowers down in a week, why even break camp with the club?  

The Bemboon thing is not as big a deal as you're making it out to be.  That will resolve itself in 3 days.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

You're not really saying anything I disagree with here.

Stowers vs. Hays is largely an opinion matter.  I don't even take umbrage with the idea that Stowers could outperform Hays right now.  I don't agree with it.  There's no real evidence of it.  But as an opinion, I don't think it is completely out there.

I DO take umbrage with the idea that playing Hays or Santander over Stowers is "stupid" (not your words) or somehow indefensible.

BTW, I've never said that Stowers should play INSTEAD of Hays or Santander, just that he should be in the mix with them getting days off. I don't know if Stowers would outperform Hays or Santander, but I do think it's certainly possible. At the end o the day, with proper roster and lineup management, there was playing time and PAs for all three.

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Cause that was two years ago and not as recent?

Right, but it's still the same OPS+.  You can call it 770 or 715 but over the last few years Hays has shown himself to be a slightly above average major league hitter.  The 715 isn't as damning as you seem to think  it is.

[Pickles]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

BTW, I've never said that Stowers should play INSTEAD of Hays or Santander, just that he should be in the mix with them getting days off. I don't know if Stowers would outperform Hays or Santander, but I do think it's certainly possible. At the end o the day, with proper roster and lineup management, there was playing time and PAs for all three.

What I really think happened is Hays had a great spring, and Vavra outperformed Stowers and leapfrogged him on the depth chart.  Nobody is making evaluations using spring performance in a vacuum but it is certainly something that is taken into consideration.

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Pickles said:

I think your first point is more than fair.  If they were going to just send Stowers down in a week, why even break camp with the club?  

The Bemboon thing is not as big a deal as you're making it out to be.  That will resolve itself in 3 days.

I'm not making a big deal out of it, but it does show how inadequate the Orioles roster decisions are. 

Let's say Stowers stayed and got some start and Vavra or Santander or Hays sits on the bench. Who would you rather have a pinch hitting option, them or Bemboom?

Proper use of a 26-man roster is setting roles for all players and using them in those roles. The Orioles never seem to have clear roles for their bench guys. Most bench guys bring something like defense, speed or power. 

Bemboom brings nothing but being able to catch, and the Orioles have two of them now. 

[Hank Scorpio]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

What do you think Hays would have OPS'd last year in Norfolk?

.439. I have no idea. 

I don't really have a dog in the Hays fight, I just arbitrarily quoted your post to get that out there. I don't really see Hays as an impediment to Stowers. More Santander and (somehow) McKenna.

When Hays in on he's good. Last year was unlucky as he was plunked in the wrist about 38 times. 

[eddie83]

I’m wondering if in about 10-14 days Stowers is back with the club. I expect Bemboom to be sent down -pass waivers -after A’s series. Then one of O’Hearn/Lester get called up. I tend to doubt they keep both Vavra and another LHB for a long time. Will have to see. This allows Stowers to play a bunch and get everyday at bats. Then perhaps he gets the callback. 
 

It’s obvious they aren’t sold on Stowers but it’s not like he can’t still get a good number of at bats. I have my doubts but he can still get some playing time. 

[Hank Scorpio]

We have too many good players, clearly. And there are more coming before long. 

What to do!

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not making a big deal out of it, but it does show how inadequate the Orioles roster decisions are. 

Let's say Stowers stayed and got some start and Vavra or Santander or Hays sits on the bench. Who would you rather have a pinch hitting option, them or Bemboom?

Proper use of a 26-man roster is setting roles for all players and using them in those roles. The Orioles never seem to have clear roles for their bench guys. Most bench guys bring something like defense, speed or power. 

Bemboom brings nothing but being able to catch, and the Orioles have two of them now. 

Bemboom is temporary due to quirk in schedule with facing all these LHP. Yesterday they pinch hit for McCann and Bemboom came in. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

BTW, I've never said that Stowers should play INSTEAD of Hays or Santander, just that he should be in the mix with them getting days off. I don't know if Stowers would outperform Hays or Santander, but I do think it's certainly possible. At the end o the day, with proper roster and lineup management, there was playing time and PAs for all three.

They certainly could have managed things that way if they wished.  Just look at how they’ve managed 2B/3B/SS so far  , getting each of 4 players 6+ starts in those spots in the first 9 games.  

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

They certainly could have managed things that way if they wished.  Just look at how they’ve managed 2B/3B/SS so far  , getting each of 4 players 6+ starts in those spots in the first 9 games.  

Hays has not started only once. Mullins, Adley, Santander and Mountcastle have started every game.