It feels like the Orioles are not quite sure what to do with themselves

[Sanity Check]

I think the answer that would make most people happy on here would be to just let Vavra, Benboom and McKenna go, and bring up Stowers (when they can) and Westburg and either O'Hearn or Lester to give us a chance to let the younger guys play at this level.  I personally believe these moves would upgrade the roster.

I don't think that either Vavra or McKenna are long term pieces that we must have, and it's problematic that they are blocking young talent, but also that they have (my opinion) minimal trade value, so we'd have to release them or give them away.

Unfortunately, other than Adley, no other starting position player has increased their trade value to start the year, so even that isn't going well.  I'm sure they're hoping to get something for Frazier at the deadline, so he needs at bats, and he needs to make the most of them, and we need to be rooting for him because of it.

[Bahama O's Fan]

11 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

There is nothing wrong with the Orioles that a very few more talented baseball players would  not cure overnight. Like a real  MLB Starting Pitcher or two and one or two better offensive players  So four or so,  would solve the majority of their problems.  It is not like previous years  when  they needed  nearly everything and nearly everybody needed  to improve.    Even without this needed improvement, they are giving the best teams in the Division all they can handle.  And again, they do not need 3 or 4 HOF's,  but that would be nice,  just a few slightly improved vs. what they presently have.  

In the offseason, I thought that one of each would put us over the top, one elite hitter and pitcher.

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

You're on an emotional roller coaster that will never stop.

I think my OP was justified and had some good points. Hopefully the team looks a lot better against Oakland than it did against the Yankees. At worst this OP is a series or two too early, and I did acknowledge in the first sentence that it's likely an overreaction. Just felt like I needed to say what I'm seeing, which is a team that appears kind of discombobulated with a hazy picture of what the plan is with the 26-man roster and its top prospects. 

[DirtyBird]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

To be realistic. The Orioles have the type of prospect surplus to acquire just about any starting pitcher available. 
 

We have too many prospects and not enough placing to play them. AAA is loaded and the Major league infield is already overcrowded to the point where your #1 prospect cannot get consistent reps at the same position.

What was the point in stock piling if you are not willing to use excess assets to acquire the additional pieces that you need to complete a roster that contend for a pennant?

How many exploratory/experimental years are we going to waste not moving forward or at least picking a direction? We can’t hedge our bets forever.

In this division and in the AL period. I don’t see a one-sided approach that limits talent acquisition to drafting top positional prospects as being sufficient. 

Nobody is giving up a quality starter for any prospects outside of our untouchables (Grayson, Gunnar, Holliday) prior to the start of a season. Every team wants to go into the season with hope of contending.

This is why I believe the plan was to stay in contention up until the trade deadline and make the big move at that point.

[Sports Guy]

When ownership doesn’t care…

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

To be realistic. The Orioles have the type of prospect surplus to acquire just about any starting pitcher available. 
 

We have too many prospects and not enough placing to play them. AAA is loaded and the Major league infield is already overcrowded to the point where your #1 prospect cannot get consistent reps at the same position.

What was the point in stock piling if you are not willing to use excess assets to acquire the additional pieces that you need to complete a roster that contend for a pennant?

How many exploratory/experimental years are we going to waste not moving forward or at least picking a direction? We can’t hedge our bets forever.

In this division and in the AL period. I don’t see a one-sided approach that limits talent acquisition to drafting top positional prospects as being sufficient. 

This post is right on point for me. At some point you need to really lift off, and that means moving legitimate prospects for legitimate major league players so are you not seven deep in major league infielders. And where is our good hitting outfield prospect that can play plus defense defense? Cowser? He's found AAA hard so far. Haskins (4th OF type)? Kjerstad? They rightfully moved him to 1B mainly. Beavers? Fabian? 

I think Westburg needs to start playing a lot of LF and RF and honestly Norby does too or else you make a decision which one you will live with the glove with at 2B and he's your guy next year. Ortiz is already ready to play major league SS and is as good and maybe more consistent than Mateo.

[Sanity Check]

15 minutes ago, waroriole said:

If that’s the plan, why did Stowers begin the year in Baltimore? 

If that's not a rhetorical question, who would you have put on the opening day roster in his place?

The fact that he didn't get playing time, that's a valid complaint.  But, who should have been on the team in his place?

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

When ownership doesn’t care…

Not true, I think ownership cares a lot about local politics and filling their guest room with gold so they can take those McScrooge gold baths. 

 

[Bemorewins]

37 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

This team will be ready to contend once Bradish Grod and altleast one other starter steps up to give us a rotation that goes into a series and you think we have a better three guys going then they do.  So far we have 1 start from GRod and 1 inning from Bradish.  We just need to hang around long enough to get some younger guys experience and not get too far behind because then the pressure will get on other teams.  We are still playing with house money this season and trying to figure out who will stay longer and who will get shipped off.   That includes the major and minor league teams.  

The “house money” line seems to be what the Orioles are selling. I’m not sure it makes sense to buy.

The owner already came out after game 1 and talked about how challenging it would be to extend Adley and Gunnar thus starting the contention time clock with those 2 being foundational pieces. If this year is a “house money” exploratory/experimental year that leaves 4 years to contend. How does that make much sense?

When you add that to the fact that the were ultra unwilling to add payroll to a 50 million dollar payroll when they were given about 250-300 million dollar revenue stream AND almost all other teams who are serious about winning decided to spend this offseason. Just when would be a good time for them to do so? And what would make one confident that they will actually do it?

For me, it appears that winning a pennant is not the chief org priority.

[waroriole]

4 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

If that's not a rhetorical question, who would you have put on the opening day roster in his place?

The fact that he didn't get playing time, that's a valid complaint.  But, who should have been on the team in his place?

Cordero or Lester or OHearn. They’re not important pieces and it doesn’t matter if they rot away on the bench. 

[Sanity Check]

13 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

To be realistic. The Orioles have the type of prospect surplus to acquire just about any starting pitcher available. 
 

We have too many prospects and not enough placing to play them. AAA is loaded and the Major league infield is already overcrowded to the point where your #1 prospect cannot get consistent reps at the same position.

What was the point in stock piling if you are not willing to use excess assets to acquire the additional pieces that you need to complete a roster that contend for a pennant?

How many exploratory/experimental years are we going to waste not moving forward or at least picking a direction? We can’t hedge our bets forever.

In this division and in the AL period. I don’t see a one-sided approach that limits talent acquisition to drafting top positional prospects as being sufficient. 

This is a great question, and I think the problem is that the guys who are on the major league team are not upgrading their trade value at all, and are not highly sought after by other teams.  Do I know this?  No.  Do I believe it?  Yes.  If those guys were outperforming and making themselves hot commodities, I have no doubt that Elias would be trading them to the highest bidders for pitching, and back-filling their positions with our talented pipeline.

Unfortunately, to make room for any of the pipeline right now, we just have to let guys go, or give them away.  I'm sure Elias is waiting/hoping these guys create a market for themselves by mid-year so he can make some deals.  Right now, that ain't happening.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Not true, I think ownership cares a lot about local politics and filling their guest room with gold so they can take those McScrooge gold baths. 

 

Very true 

[Ohfan67]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think my OP was justified and had some good points. Hopefully the team looks a lot better against Oakland than it did against the Yankees. At worst this OP is a series or two too early, and I did acknowledge in the first sentence that it's likely an overreaction. Just felt like I needed to say what I'm seeing, which is a team that appears kind of discombobulated with a hazy picture of what the plan is with the 26-man roster and its top prospects. 

There are a lot of emotional posts and threads right now...we are fanatics after all. But when you step back just a little, it's clear that the 26th roster spot is pretty meaningless and the only top prospect that the Orioles have been unclear about in my mind is Grayson and Bradish's injury cleared that situation up. Stowers is not one of the Orioles elite prospects, but even he has not been jerked around...he got to get paid ML salary for 9 days and will now go play every day until needed. Adley and Gunnar are getting the elite prospect treatment...they are playing when promoted and Gunnar was promoted pretty aggressively. Unfortunately from an impatient fan perspective, the Orioles have made and are making moves that suggests they think they are a year or two behind where the fans want the team to be. And remember the Orioles are dealing with multiple pitcher injuries...and they love the Norfolk shuttle anyway. 

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This post is right on point for me. At some point you need to really lift off, and that means moving legitimate prospects for legitimate major league players so are you not seven deep in major league infielders. And where is our good hitting outfield prospect that can play plus defense defense? Cowser? He's found AAA hard so far. Haskins (4th OF type)? Kjerstad? They rightfully moved him to 1B mainly. Beavers? Fabian? 

I think Westburg needs to start playing a lot of LF and RF and honestly Norby does too or else you make a decision which one you will live with the glove with at 2B and he's your guy next year. Ortiz is already ready to play major league SS and is as good and maybe more consistent than Mateo.

Yeah. I think I'm a little miffed by the perceived hesitancy. It's cool that Grayson is here, but mainly because he happened to pitch well. Otherwise, there seems to be a real hesitance to shake this roster up. I get that they want to give the veterans some time, but Elias has said time and again that this year is about winning. Unfortunately, he's said that in reference to prospects not coming up right away. But sooner or later, if your young vets aren't getting it done, you have to make some bold moves. Move Hays to the bench more often than not, etc. I actually liked Mullins hitting lower in the lineup, and he had a nice game doing that. Since then he's right back at the top and contributing absolutely nothing. 

The hesitance and hand-wringing and flip-flopping the organization is exuding right now is palpable. And yeah it's very early and this thread might mean nothing in a week or so. But I didn't expect this from Elias who has, until this point, really had a solid, solid plan. He probably still does, but right now it ain't working. 

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

There are a lot of emotional posts and threads right now...we are fanatics after all. But when you step back just a little, it's clear that the 26th roster spot is pretty meaningless and the only top prospect that the Orioles have been unclear about in my mind is Grayson and Bradish's injury cleared that situation up. Stowers is not one of the Orioles elite prospects, but even he has not been jerked around...he got to get paid ML salary for 9 days and will now go play every day until needed. Adley and Gunnar are getting the elite prospect treatment...they are playing when promoted and Gunnar was promoted pretty aggressively. Unfortunately from an impatient fan perspective, the Orioles have made and are making moves that suggests they think they are a year or two behind where the fans want the team to be. And remember the Orioles are dealing with multiple pitcher injuries...and they love the Norfolk shuttle anyway. 

I mean my post was about a lot more than the 26th man on the team. For the moment I'm at least happy that Stowers will be getting regular ABs. And Bemboom seems temporary. But it's still the roster they think gives them the best chance to win, and that's pretty weird.