Dodgers are getting desperate at SS

[HakunaSakata]

Just now, bluedog said:

I don't think the average fan is deciding whether or not to buy tickets based on Jorge Mateo. They are doing it based on whether or not the club is winning.

And I haven't suggested we trade Mateo for a prospect - I've suggested we trade him for a ML starter.

 

...and unless you can flip Mateo for a guy you can immediately insert into your starting rotation (which is a pipe dream) then it will not make the team better this season (i.e., less winning). If we're strictly talking about the Dodgers they don't have a MLB starter comparable to Mateo. Their pitching staff is also pretty thin with Gonsolin out. 

[bluedog]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

How desperate are the Dodgers really though?  It's not like Betts isn't a freak athlete.  He's won GG's in the OF.  He's played baseball his whole life.  I'm sure Betts will be just fine and Rojas will come in as a defensive replacement.  Plus, we're contending.  Contending teams just don't trade away a SS like Mateo unless we'd be getting absolutely blown away with a SP offer.  

Serious question. If you could trade a 3.0 WAR SS and replace him with a 3.0 WAR SS from within your organization and in exchange you get a 3.0 WAR SP that fills a hole in your rotation, would you do that trade?

Edited April 19, 2023 by bluedog

[bluedog]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

...and unless you can flip Mateo for a guy you can immediately insert into your starting rotation (which is a pipe dream) then it will not make the team better this season (i.e., less winning). If we're strictly talking about the Dodgers they don't have a MLB starter comparable to Mateo. Their pitching staff is also pretty thin with Gonsolin out. 

Why is it a pipe dream that we can trade Mateo plus prospects for a ML SP?

[emmett16]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think the trades he has made thus far prove your point.

He's yet to pull the trigger on a significant trade.

Would you consider Bradish deal significant?  I think it's trending to that territory.  Lopez trade has potential to as well.  But you statement remains correct as of today. 

[HakunaSakata]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm sticking with the fanbase isn't engaged enough for the backlash to be a problem.

Did the Orioles even have a fanbase over the last five years? I feel like there needs to be another term for it that indicates something significantly smaller. Either way, I think we can probably agree that the fanbase has been trending in a positive direction since the middle of last season and I think trading Mateo would flatline that trend. 

[HakunaSakata]

4 minutes ago, bluedog said:

Why is it a pipe dream that we can trade Mateo plus prospects for a ML SP?

This thread was specifically about the Dodgers. Who fits that profile on their team? Urias? Not a chance Mateo is enough. Kershaw? Too old. May? Probably untouchable (as he should be). Gonsolin? Injured and worth more because he's under team control for awhile. Syndergaard? Not really an upgrade. 

[RarityFlaherty]

6 minutes ago, bluedog said:

Why is it a pipe dream that we can trade Mateo plus prospects for a ML SP?

I wouldn’t say pipe dream, but I doubt other teams value him all that highly right now. I think there’s probably more value in keeping him than any return we might get in a trade. We are probably better off trading someone like Ortiz around the deadline to a team that is selling. 

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

This thread was specifically about the Dodgers. Who fits that profile on their team? Urias? Not a chance Mateo is enough. Kershaw? Too old. May? Probably untouchable (as he should be). Gonsolin? Injured and worth more because he's under team control for awhile. Syndergaard? Not really an upgrade. 

I think a deal centered around May/Mateo would get my attention.  

[bluedog]

4 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I think a deal centered around May/Mateo would get my attention.  

May would rock.

How about Pepiot?

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, bluedog said:

May would rock.

How about Pepiot?

Think you have to give up some more.  He has ~1 year of service time vs. ~3years May.  

[bluedog]

5 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

I wouldn’t say pipe dream, but I doubt other teams value him all that highly right now. I think there’s probably more value in keeping him than any return we might get in a trade. We are probably better off trading someone like Ortiz around the deadline to a team that is selling. 

Cogent argument.

I always have a hard time with the "we value him more than anyone else does" bit though. Why would other teams value him less than we do, especially if they need a SS and we have a glut of them? And why would we value someone more than anyone else? Doesn't that mean we are being irrational in how we value the player?

If there was ever a candidate for the O's valuing a player more than other teams, I figure it would have been Mancini.

[bluedog]

1 minute ago, emmett16 said:

Think you have to give up some more.  He has ~1 year of service time vs. ~3years May.  

Yeah earlier in the thread I said it would take Mateo + prospects to get any of the Dodgers starters. I don't disagree with you here.

[sportsfan8703]

Miguel Rojas to the IL for the Dodgers now.

[RarityFlaherty]

2 minutes ago, bluedog said:

Cogent argument.

I always have a hard time with the "we value him more than anyone else does" bit though. Why would other teams value him less than we do, especially if they need a SS and we have a glut of them? And why would we value someone more than anyone else? Doesn't that mean we are being irrational in how we value the player?

If there was ever a candidate for the O's valuing a player more than other teams, I figure it would have been Mancini.

Well, I’m more talking about us valuing him as fans. I don’t think we can get what we as fans think we can get for him. And I think there’s probably more value to us with him on the team, than what we could get for him in a trade. Personally, I’d like to see if he can keep hitting. I’d be willing to risk him regressing and getting nothing for him to be able to see what kind of player he could be. 

[wildcard]

Has anyone noticed that Bobby Miller has a sore shoulder, missed ST completely and has not pitched in a game so far this year.   Or that Gavin Stone has a 7.20 ERA in AAA this season.

I don't think Elias is anywhere close to trading Mateo.    He is trying to win this season.  So Mateo is helping the odds on that.   He doesn't even know if he needs another starter.   Gibson, Wells, Bradish,  GRod and Kremer with Means ready in July may be better than what he can trade for.   If that does not turn out to be true he may be interested in trading at that point.

Edited April 19, 2023 by wildcard