Dodgers are getting desperate at SS

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

The fear is that we trade someone who turns into an all-star somewhere else.  Because that would have meant he'd have been an all-star here and we were dumb and we were stupid because we guessed wrong.  And since that's never happened before, it's excruciatingly painful to think about trading someone who could turn into a stud somewhere else.

I have a BIGGER fear, we go the cheap/safe  route and retain all of our positional prospects. They all turn out good AND we still never win anything because we don’t have enough pitching to succeed in the postseason.

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Why would the Dodgers want Urias and then give up prospects as well for him? I don’t believe he carries that kind of value and definitely not to play SS. I believe that Ortiz (a top 100 Major League ready SS with full service time) would carry much more value than Urias, who would be playing out of position and is no more than a decent hitter as is.

I think you are overrating Ortiz’s trade value, though I agree Urias’ best value is not at SS.   Top 100 is not at all a guarantee of success, especially towards the bottom of that list.  Meanwhile, Urias is a proven solid major league player. 

[CaptDbog]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not believing in a player's recent hot streak and hoping that another team willing to trade for him does believe is one of my favorite OH wet dreams of all time.  

I mean, you can say that in the reverse for any waiver wire pickup. Seems like Elias made the correct pickups with Urias and Mateo.  I don't think its farfetched to think another GM would have a different assessment of a prospect or MLB player. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

When you build a lot of depth in the same areas, that’s the risk you take but you have to pull the trigger in some of these guys.

Totally agree.  I don't mind making trades, but the hesitancy that others have is a little odd.  We don't have room for all these guys, no matter who our favorites are.  There was never going to be a situation where we'd have room for Ortiz, Westburg, Mateo, Henderson, Holliday, Mayo, Norby...I'm not sure what people are expecting here.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, CaptDbog said:

I mean, you can say that in the reverse for any waiver wire pickup. Seems like Elias made the correct pickups with Urias and Mateo.  I don't think its farfetched to think another GM would have a different assessment of a prospect or MLB player. 

I don't believe Elias was banking on that Urias and Mateo would become what they've become.  

Waiver wire pickups are a bit different, they're freebies.  

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I have a BIGGER fear, we go the cheap/safe  route and retain all of our positional prospects. They all turn out good AND we still never win anything because we don’t have enough pitching to succeed in the postseason.

I don't think there's any situation where we could retain all of our positional prospects, especially the infielders.

I also don't think Elias is stupid enough to think he can win anything without pitching.  

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, CaptDbog said:

Addition by subtraction.  Trading Urias frees up a spot. Not every trade has to be a blockbuster of prospects.  I believe Ortiz will be a better ball player than Urias and Mateo. 

Even if he is, he is still only a place holder for the much more talented/high ceiling player in Holiday.

And as I mentioned in another post, moving Ortiz to another position only creates a logjam somewhere else. 
 

We are going to have to figure out a way to acquire better pitching. Both for this season and for seasons to come. What we have can get us through against, the Nats, A’s (though our pitching wasn’t good there), White Sox, Tigers, etc.

But as we saw last year down the stretch I’m big games, it was not good enough.

I know we have hopes for Rodriguez, but that’s a lot of pressure to put on a guy navigating his way through his first big league season. The rest are serious question marks - Can Braddish repeat the second half when he had no prior Major League success? Who knows what Means will be just coming back off a significant injury?

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I don’t understand the hesitancy for people to want to trade Ortiz. 
 

 

Because Frazier is on a one year contract and is probably traded  for a prospect sometime between now and late July.  Ortiz and Westburg are possible replacements at 2B.

The Dodgers problems are the Dodgers problems.   I like the depth the O's have in the young players.     Injuries will happen.  So will slumps.

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think you are overrating Ortiz’s trade value, though I agree Urias’ best value is not at SS.   Top 100 is not at all a guarantee of success, especially towards the bottom of that list.  Meanwhile, Urias is a proven solid major league player. 

True no prospect is a guarantee. But at least that is his natural position where the defense is considered plus. 
 

My preference would be to package Ortiz with others maybe even including Urias to get us the kind of pitching help we will need to win in October.

[Otter]

I don't see Elias making any bold trades like this.  Based on his actions, or lack of actions, my guess is he plans to let things work themselves out regarding the logjam of infielders at AAA and the major league club.  I think he'll hold onto all the infielders and wait to see if there are injuries, poor individual performance, or poor team performance that pushes him to make moves before the trade deadline.  I'm not saying I agree, just that I think that's his M.O.  Personally, I'd prefer to trade players at deep positions at the height of their value rather than wait to see which players fail before deciding who's a keeper or not.

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Totally agree.  I don't mind making trades, but the hesitancy that others have is a little odd.  We don't have room for all these guys, no matter who our favorites are.  There was never going to be a situation where we'd have room for Ortiz, Westburg, Mateo, Henderson, Holliday, Mayo, Norby...I'm not sure what people are expecting here.

Agreed 100 million percent!!!!

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Because Frazier is on a one year contract and is probably traded  for a prospect sometime between now and late July.  Ortiz and Westburg are possible replacements at 2B.

The Dodgers problems are the Dodgers problems.   I like the depth the O's have in the young players.     Injuries will happen.  So will slumps.

You keep holding onto this trade Frazier thing.  Don’t count on it. He’s still going to be owed 3-4M around the deadline and unless he is playing very well, which may not be that likely, he isn’t going anywhere unless the team is eating most or all of his contract (good luck with that) and/or we are with a garbage return. 

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

The question is whether Elias believes Mateo is at his ceiling and could come crashing down or is he just going to take off even more.

Agreed.  Elias definitely likes Mateo's defense/speed.  But the big question is how does Elias value/trust Mateo's offensive improvements?  There are some things that say it's sustainable IF he can keep his mental approach of not chasing.  But it takes big cajones to trade the guy who happens to be the best SS at the time of the trade!  I'd have to assume the return would be really good to justify that type of move.  Like Bobby Miller or Gavin Stone.

I think Mateo carries the most trade value for a team like the Dodgers at this point.  But he also carries a lot of value for the O's too.  Especially if this is real, but even if not.

I really doubt the Dodgers will trade Miller or Stone unless they really buy into what Mateo is doing.  If not, then we're in the next tier (Nastrini, Pepiot, or deeper).  And at that point, I doubt it's Mateo we would be willing to trade.  Then we're talking Urias, Ortiz, or Westburg and not getting a potential TOR arm.

Maybe Mateo plus a McDermott tier pitcher will get Stone?

 

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You keep holding onto this trade Frazier thing.  Don’t count on it. He’s still going to be owed 3-4M around the deadline and unless he is playing very well, which may not be that likely, he isn’t going anywhere unless the team is eating most or all of his contract (good luck with that) and/or we are with a garbage return. 

2.7m in late July.  Elias can find a way to work that in a trade.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Because Frazier is on a one year contract and is probably traded  for a prospect sometime between now and late July.  Ortiz and Westburg are possible replacements at 2B.

The Dodgers problems are the Dodgers problems.   I like the depth the O's have in the young players.     Injuries will happen.  So will slumps.

I agree with you part of the post that we don’t need to just give away guys at the Major League level in order to help the Dodgers.

However, as far as the first part goes, what realistic prospect could we get for Frazier? A lottery ticket Dominican 16/17 year old at best, which at this point of our Franchise’s state with where the Major League team is and the abundance of minor league assets, does absolutely nothing for me.

I have observed you to be the most optimistic/orange colored glasses poster on this site. But let me ask you, beyond the serious question marks and maybes that we have in terms of pitching, where do you see opportunities to improve our Major League staff to seriously compete in the postseason. For all the talk about Hall and his development and potential, the man will be 25 this year. Do you think by the time he is 27 he can consistently throw strikes and get AAA hitters out?

It seems that a more reasonable approach would be to take excess minor league positional players to package for much improved and much needed Major League pitching. No?