The Adam Frazier Hate

[Too Tall]

I have a dog that goes out every night at bedtime and barks at the sky. Just sits there and barks. Have no idea why but now I'm thinking he didn't like the Frazier signing either. Told him last night but he hit a home run and WE WON! Made no difference cause he just got up went out and barked again!  QED

[Frobby]

By the way, I’m really glad someone finally started a thread discussing this topic.  We’ve really been lacking sufficient discussion of Frazier and his acquisition.  

[ScGO's]

Frazier is leaps and bounds better than Odor and for that one simple reason, I celebrate Elias for this signing. Fraizer has more BB than Ks, currently on pace for a 20 HR/20 SB season (10-15 HRs is probably more realistic, but the steals are gonna be there I think). His dWAR is way better than Odor. He can play a few positions.

Elias paid for Depth, its something the O's haven't had in a long time, so I think that's why our fan base seemed to be bamboozled by this signing. They saw all the youth, they were excited by the possibilities of the youth, and out of impatience, many started demanding to see the youth now. We all know its coming, but the lineup was still very unproven going into this year.

If Ortiz or Westburg takes Frazier's starting job in a few weeks/couple months, Frazier is still worth the signing as he provides depth and versatility moving forward. He would still probably find 2-3 starts a week while pinching hitting or being a defensive replacement for many of the other games. And he can slide right back into starting full time if one of the youth is struggling or gets injured.

We needed the depth. Urias is injury prone, Mateo wasn't proven with the bat, and Henderson,Ortiz, Westburg, and Norby don't have the experience yet. There were not guarantees on how the young guys would perform out the game

In this market $8 Million is the new $3 Million. Its for one year, and he's on pace for over 2.0 WAR, compared to Odor's -.4 WAR. He's the 6th highest WAR on the team among position players. The 8 mil is a 1 year deal; its off the books next year when its definitely going to be time for a big FA signing; I think Elias wants to spend big money for a big dawg on a multi year deal but needed to see what this team was through the first couple months just to be sure about how to approach it. Frazier was a safe investment to take pressure off all the young Infielders. He's is to the INF what Kyle Gibson is to the SPs. Safe, 1 year deals, giving Elias just a little more time to evaluate the young talent before going all in on a big signing or two.

One of the seniors I coached this Spring down here in WNC is a cousin to Cal Raleigh. He's a solid ball player himself getting ready to go to Western Carolina next year. He's around the Mariners a ton. I asked him about Adam Frazier and told him how O's fans are torn on him. I told him I love his style of play and his dry-I could careless approach to interviews. He said Frazier is a great dude/teammate and what we have seen is exactly his personality towards anything media; he just wants to get to business, old school mentality. We both agreed that the new rules really help a player like Frazier and that his value isn't appreciated sometimes.  He said that's why Frazier stayed in Seattle's lineup all year although he had some offensive struggles; reliable, doesn't have a lot of "bad" outs.

[maybenxtyr]

I think people confuse "hate" with facts too much these days. I don't think anyone actually hates Frazier, just most feel it was an unnecessary signing for a team that seems to be on a budget. Either way, he's been about what everyone expected, which is clearly an upgrade over Odor. 

[wildcard]

People have short memories.  Many people  before the season  were projecting the O's to regress.  I would say the percentage of fans that projected the O's to win 90+ was less than 5%.    Elias was surprised the O's won 83 in 2022.   He probably was not sure the O's would progress as well.

2nd point:  Elias was not signing players to multi year contracts.  Ownership was not ready to do that until attendance increased.   So the realm on players available for Elias to sign were few.   Gibson, Frazier, Givens  and trade for Irvin.   They did add McCann 2/5.  The starters on the free agent market turned out too expensive for the budget Elias was working with.

3rd point:  Elias was already committed to one rookie in the infield.   Gunnar.  He didn't know if he would be at SS or 3B.    Mateo offense at SS was questionable.   Urias had a knee problem and had injury problems during the years he has been an Oriole.   So just going with rookies at 2B Elias deemed too risky.   He went with a veteran on a one year contract.   It was probably the responsible thing to do.

Hyde recently said that the odds of rookies being successful in the majors is a "crap shoot".   He has probably held that belief for a while.   The thought is if the goal is to  be a contender, going with too many rookies at once is risky.    Especially when the veterans are winning.   How do the rookies get to the majors.  My guess is gradually.

I'd say Elias is more ready to go with a rookie at 2B now than he was at the beginning of the season.  And he will be  even more ready by the deadline.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by wildcard

[sportsfan8703]

17 BB 15 SO

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

People have short memories.  Many people  before the season  were projecting the O's to regress.  I would say the percentage of fans that projected the O's to win 90+ was less than 5%.    

At least with respect to OH posters, we don’t have to guess.  6.42%.  30% had the O’s winning fewer games than last year.   

[Mr-splash]

22 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Frazier is leaps and bounds better than Odor and for that one simple reason, I celebrate Elias for this signing. Fraizer has more BB than Ks, currently on pace for a 20 HR/20 SB season (10-15 HRs is probably more realistic, but the steals are gonna be there I think). His dWAR is way better than Odor. He can play a few positions.

Elias paid for Depth, its something the O's haven't had in a long time, so I think that's why our fan base seemed to be bamboozled by this signing. They saw all the youth, they were excited by the possibilities of the youth, and out of impatience, many started demanding to see the youth now. We all know its coming, but the lineup was still very unproven going into this year.

If Ortiz or Westburg takes Frazier's starting job in a few weeks/couple months, Frazier is still worth the signing as he provides depth and versatility moving forward. He would still probably find 2-3 starts a week while pinching hitting or being a defensive replacement for many of the other games. And he can slide right back into starting full time if one of the youth is struggling or gets injured.

We needed the depth. Urias is injury prone, Mateo wasn't proven with the bat, and Henderson,Ortiz, Westburg, and Norby don't have the experience yet. There were not guarantees on how the young guys would perform out the game

In this market $8 Million is the new $3 Million. Its for one year, and he's on pace for over 2.0 WAR, compared to Odor's -.4 WAR. He's the 6th highest WAR on the team among position players. The 8 mil is a 1 year deal; its off the books next year when its definitely going to be time for a big FA signing; I think Elias wants to spend big money for a big dawg on a multi year deal but needed to see what this team was through the first couple months just to be sure about how to approach it. Frazier was a safe investment to take pressure off all the young Infielders. He's is to the INF what Kyle Gibson is to the SPs. Safe, 1 year deals, giving Elias just a little more time to evaluate the young talent before going all in on a big signing or two.

One of the seniors I coached this Spring down here in WNC is a cousin to Cal Raleigh. He's a solid ball player himself getting ready to go to Western Carolina next year. He's around the Mariners a ton. I asked him about Adam Frazier and told him how O's fans are torn on him. I told him I love his style of play and his dry-I could careless approach to interviews. He said Frazier is a great dude/teammate and what we have seen is exactly his personality towards anything media; he just wants to get to business, old school mentality. We both agreed that the new rules really help a player like Frazier and that his value isn't appreciated sometimes.  He said that's why Frazier stayed in Seattle's lineup all year although he had some offensive struggles; reliable, doesn't have a lot of "bad" outs.

 

This. Good post. $8 million is the going rate for a decent MLB player in the tail end of his prime. Frazier is still young enough to produce at a high level. He's not some 35 year old on his last legs. He's getting it done.

[sportsfan8703]

.700 OPS. 17 BB 15 SO. On pace for a 15/15 season. Steady defense. He’s like a second lead off guy when he bats 5. Mountcastle seems to end a lot of innings. 
 

Frazier does all the little things. I think this team needed that to start the year. It’s up to Urias, Ortiz, and Westburg to push him to a bench role. 

[Mr-splash]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

.700 OPS. 17 BB 15 SO. On pace for a 15/15 season. Steady defense. He’s like a second lead off guy when he bats 5. Mountcastle seems to end a lot of innings. 
 

Frazier does all the little things. I think this team needed that to start the year. It’s up to Urias, Ortiz, and Westburg to push him to a bench role. 

He's getting it done. No way around that.

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Mr-splash said:

He's getting it done. No way around that.

I know we want more, and we might get more by the end of the season from Westburg and Ortiz. However, we needed Frazier to start the year. He was an Urias insurance policy and is still that. 

[Mr-splash]

I don't hate Ortiz. He hasn't walked or produced an extra base hit in his 8 games here. Small sample size no doubt. Here is the thing, if Ortiz outplays Frazier (he has not so far) then Frazier should be benched and take Vavra's current role. I have no problem benching Frazier is he is outplayed. I have 3 words for Joey Ortiz if he wants to start. "Win the job". 

[sportsfan8703]

Also, why does nobody complain about the $5 million we gave Givens?  I guess we’re about to boot Irvin for Givens soon. I have Givens as our 5th best RH RP and possibly only better than Voth in short relief. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Also, why does nobody complain about the $5 million we gave Givens?  I guess we’re about to boot Irvin for Givens soon. I have Givens as our 5th best RH RP and possibly only better than Voth in short relief. 

He's on the IL so we don't see him every game.

[Mr-splash]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Also, why does nobody complain about the $5 million we gave Givens?  I guess we’re about to boot Irvin for Givens soon. I have Givens as our 5th best RH RP and possibly only better than Voth in short relief. 

Position players always get more hate than pitchers. Why? Because even the best hitters fail more often than they succeed. And the fact that they play every day.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Mr-splash