How does Westburg get playing time vs RHP?

[Hank Scorpio]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

He has to pull an O'Hearn and immediately hit, IMO, to get playing time vs RHP. Tall order. Because he has to either supplant Hyde's favorite player in Frazier, or he has to push a GGer to the bench. Tough. 

I understand why your head goes there, but I think Westburg is a strong enough prospect that they're not going to jerk him around unless he is Frazier/Mateo bad.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

Of course I see how. But I also live in a reality in which Frazier was recently talked up by not only Hyde but also Elias. And we know how they're a slave to the matchup game, and how they ignore reverse splits. 

So - yeah of course I would play Westburg over Frazier vs RHP. But in no way do I believe Hyde will actually do that. And with Hicks and O'Hearn holding down RF and 1B, and Santander/Adley at DH.... I think we're looking at another Ortiz situation.

Well Mateo can see less PT and Westburg goes to third.

[forphase1]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I know that. Hyde doesn't care, is what I'm saying. They have a track record of ignoring reverse splits. So why do we think they'll start caring now?

 

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

They kept Stowers on the bench vs. lefties in spite of him OPS'ing over .900 against them last year in Norfolk. So, there is precedent unfortunately.

You both are right, and it would be right in line with some of the other head scratching, mind numbing things they have done.  See Stowers and Frazier usage.  Westburg SHOULD start 4+ games a week, by either Frazier being on the bench, or some other movement (Gunnar at SS with Mateo on bench, etc).  But don't change the fact that sitting him against RPH makes little sense...which is likely what Hyde will try to do!   

[forphase1]

1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I understand why your head goes there, but I think Westburg is a strong enough prospect that they're not going to jerk him around unless he is Frazier/Mateo bad.

Is Westburg REALLY that much of a better prospect than Ortiz?   I don't think so.  There is SOME gap there perhaps, but it isn't huge.  And we've seen how they have jerked Ortiz around IMO.  So nothing would surprise me really.

[MikeAD]

You can't sit him on the bench.  He needs at bats and a majority of opponents will be right handed.  Maybe he sits against a real tough righty but hes got to get at bats against righties.  Just have to play him, pretty simple.  So many at bats between 3B/SS/2B and if you NEED to have the current guys in there, first base has a lot of flexibility.  

[interloper]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well Mateo can see less PT and Westburg goes to third.

In my OP I already noted that Mateo goes to the bench. However, like I said, the issue is will Hyde play Westburg over Urias at 3B with Frazier at 2B? I say no. I would love love love to be wrong. 

But in my mind, nothing has really changed. This team still needs a trade to clear the backlog that Frazier is creating. Or they need to finally decide to bench Frazier permanently, which I just find impossible to believe right now. They just love having that left-handed hitting infielder vs RHP. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, interloper said:

In my OP I already noted that Mateo goes to the bench. However, like I said, the issue is will Hyde play Westburg over Urias at 3B with Frazier at 2B? I say no. I would love love love to be wrong. 

But in my mind, nothing has really changed. This team still needs a trade to clear the backlog that Frazier is creating. Or they need to finally decide to bench Frazier permanently, which I just find impossible to believe right now. They just love having that left-handed hitting infielder vs RHP. 

Well Urias can also play first.

Honestly, it’s several guys right now. OHearn and Hicks also hold things up.

It will cause a change in thinking for them to play Westburg a lot.

[deward]

29 minutes ago, interloper said:

Where? Over whom? I'm approaching this from what Hyde is most likely to do, which is continue to play Frazier vs RHP. 

I said this in the other thread, but I don't think Hyde will be going rogue if he's been given marching orders that Westburg needs to play. It's going to be up to what Elias wants to see happen. If Elias wants to see Westburg get consistent ABs, then he'll get them. If Elias doesn't care if he gets the Ortiz treatment, then I would question why they're bothering to add him to the 40-man roster now.

[xmichaelx]

He is wearing number 11, which is a starter number so take that for what its worth.

[Jammer7]

He just needs to get comfortable fairly quickly, play solid defense and have solid pro at bats. Hyde showed a lot of patience with Gunnar and let him work his way through his early struggles. JW is not the same level prospect as Gunnar, but not too far off.

I did not think JW looked very good at 2B in the limited looks in spring training. I hope he acclimates there much better than I saw.

As far as Frazier or Mateo going, who knows? I think Josh Lester should be DFA to make room on the 40. They’ll likely send Ortiz down, but he should be back. You have to think that Mateo has just about played his way out of the lineup. The mental lapses and the fact that his approach and mechanics have regressed horribly are maddening. I was one of his biggest advocates here, but it’s time to not be the everyday guy. 
 

EDIT: LOL, they make the move as I was typing this. Godoy waived, fine. Lester can be waived for Cowser then.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Jammer7

[interloper]

1 minute ago, xmichaelx said:

He is wearing number 11, which is a starter number so take that for what its worth.

I also thought that was potentially a good sign. 

If the O's manage to come to their senses and bench Frazier most of the time, that will be amazing. However, what use is Frazier on the bench? He's not a defensive or offensive upgrade, and he has no speed. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by interloper

[rm5678]

41 minutes ago, interloper said:

 

This is the crux of why I think ultimately Westburg is really only here to play against this string of LH SP. I just don't know how he gets ABs vs RHP without injury or trade. 

The O's put out a hype video this morning on Twitter for Westburg. They didn't do that for Ortiz. That tells me that the plan is for Westburg to play every day.

[rm5678]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

I also thought that was potentially a good sign. 

If the O's manage to come to their senses and bench Frazier most of the time, that will be amazing. However, what use is Frazier on the bench? He's not a defensive or offensive upgrade, and he has no speed. 

Trade bait would be the best use for Frazier at this point.

[interloper]

 

[RarityFlaherty]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I also thought that was potentially a good sign. 

If the O's manage to come to their senses and bench Frazier most of the time, that will be amazing. However, what use is Frazier on the bench? He's not a defensive or offensive upgrade, and he has no speed. 

I know it’s not a popular opinion, but I really like Frazier as a versatile lefty bench bat. He’s one of our best hitters with runners on base. He has an .853 OPS with runners on. That’s second to only Santander.