How does Westburg get playing time vs RHP?

[xmichaelx]

Frazier will probably be a pinch hitter/late inning replacement?

[MikeAD]

19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well Urias can also play first.

Honestly, it’s several guys right now. OHearn and Hicks also hold things up.

It will cause a change in thinking for them to play Westburg a lot.

Yeah, and its time for that change of thinking.  Westburg is on the MLB roster, he needs to be starting and getting at bats.  There has been a strong argument to play the other guys up until now but theres no reason Westburg should be sitting against all RHPs.   

 

I am 100% confident management agrees here, hopefully im not wrong.  

[waroriole]

11 minutes ago, interloper said:

 

I like the stoic reaction. Like, what took so long. 

[Moose Milligan]

I just hope that Westburg comes up and has a couple monster games right away to force their hands.  Hit a bomb tonight, a couple doubles tomorrow...just crush it right away so the choice becomes obvious that they can't put Frazier back in the lineup.

Make them look stupid for preferring Frazier over him.  Make it so obvious that everyone knows.  

[Aristotelian]

42 minutes ago, interloper said:

This is the crux of why I think ultimately Westburg is really only here to play against this string of LH SP. I just don't know how he gets ABs vs RHP without injury or trade. 

I think they would have simply kept with Ortiz if they were looking for a one series spot platoon starter. Westburg can start every day vs LHP. Vs RHP, he can take a couple starts from Mateo and occasional starts from Urias and Frazier. Mateo can be such a valuable bench weapon and he's hitting so bad that I'd take more from Mateo initially. If Mateo starts hitting again, then you take more from Frazier etc. Maybe O'Hearn stops hitting and he replaces Mountcastle. There are lots of pathways for him to be more than a platoon guy.  

[deward]

24 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

He just needs to get comfortable fairly quickly, play solid defense and have solid pro at bats. Hyde showed a lot of patience with Gunnar and let him work his way through his early struggles. JW is not the same level prospect as Gunnar, but not too far off.

I did not think JW looked very good at 2B in the limited looks in spring training. I hope he acclimates there much better than I saw.

As far as Frazier or Mateo going, who knows? I think Josh Lester should be DFA to make room on the 40. They’ll likely send Ortiz down, but he should be back. You have to think that Mateo has just about played his way out of the lineup. The mental lapses and the fact that his approach and mechanics have regressed horribly are maddening. I was one of his biggest advocates here, but it’s time to not be the everyday guy. 
 

EDIT: LOL, they make the move as I was typing this. Godoy waived, fine. Lester can be waived for Cowser then.

I would correct to say that Elias showed a lot of patience with Gunnar. I don't think Hyde gets to make those kind of decisions for players that mean that much to the org. Everything we've seen this morning suggests that Westburg's ultimate playing time isn't really up to Hyde either, other than perhaps the details of what position on a given night and what spot in the lineup. 

[jamalshw]

I think it's interesting and telling how they've handled Westburg vs. Ortiz. I get the 40-man roster decision piece of it for Ortiz, but they're making a bigger deal about Westburg than Ortiz (a day's notice) and I don't anticipate them going up and down with him as they are Ortiz. 

Based on this, it's clear to me that while they like Ortiz and view him as a good prospect, they don't have him in the same class of prospects as Westburg who seems like he's being treated closer to how they treated Adley and Henderson whereas Ortiz is being treated more like Stowers. 

[Low Country Bird]

1 minute ago, jamalshw said:

I think it's interesting and telling how they've handled Westburg vs. Ortiz. I get the 40-man roster decision piece of it for Ortiz, but they're making a bigger deal about Westburg than Ortiz (a day's notice) and I don't anticipate them going up and down with him as they are Ortiz. 

Based on this, it's clear to me that while they like Ortiz and view him as a good prospect, they don't have him in the same class of prospects as Westburg who seems like he's being treated closer to how they treated Adley and Henderson whereas Ortiz is being treated more like Stowers. 

But by all accounts, Ortiz is much better defensively than either Gunnar or Westburg.  Further, Ortiz has hit plenty since recovering from his injury.  So while I think you're right on how they view the two, I don't understand it.   Ortiz should have been given the same treatment as Gunnar and/or Westburg.  

[e16bball]

11 minutes ago, deward said:

Everything we've seen this morning suggests that Westburg's ultimate playing time isn't really up to Hyde either, other than perhaps the details of what position on a given night and what spot in the lineup. 

I agree with this. The question with Westburg was always one of which side of the line would he fall on — the Adley/Gunnar/Grayson side or the Stowers/Ortiz side. Based on his prospect status, it would have been reasonable for him to go either way. 

The level of production and promotion the team has rolled out today with Westburg’s arrival suggests pretty strongly that they perceive him as being on the higher tier. There was nothing like this when they called up Ortiz or Stowers.

[Matt Bennett]

I popped a grid into Excel and just summed up each player’s starts per week and making sure no position went over 7. I think it would be tough to paste into here but honestly it wasn’t that hard to get Westburg 6 starts a week once Mateo and Frazier only got 3 starts a week each. I kept the DH rotating. 

Playing everyday: Gunnar, Mullins, Hays, Santander

Playing 6 times a week: Adley, Urias, Westburg

Playing 4 times a week: O’Hearn, Hicks, 

Playing 3 times a week: Frazier, Mateo

1B: O’Hearn: 4, Urias: 2, Santander: 1

2B: Frazier: 3, Urias: 2, Westburg: 2

3B: Henderson: 3, Urias: 2, Westburg: 2

SS: Mateo: 3, Henderson: 3, Westburg: 1

I even got McKenna a start. 

 

[jamalshw]

14 minutes ago, Low Country Bird said:

But by all accounts, Ortiz is much better defensively than either Gunnar or Westburg.  Further, Ortiz has hit plenty since recovering from his injury.  So while I think you're right on how they view the two, I don't understand it.   Ortiz should have been given the same treatment as Gunnar and/or Westburg.  

I don't dispute any of that. I'm just going off the Orioles actions. Perhaps there are numbers we aren't seeing, but it certainly feels like Ortiz is being viewed more as a utility/role player option while Westburg is viewed as a top tier everyday player. I do think Westburg's bat is better. I agree Ortiz has the better glove. Maybe it's that Holliday is coming up fast and is expected to take the SS role. If we didn't have Holliday, perhaps Ortiz would be held in higher regard as the SS of the future. But his defensive superiority isn't as big of a difference at 3B or 2B as it would be at SS.

In the end, it'll be interesting to see where both players' careers end up. 

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

To me, it comes down to Westburg vs Urias against RHP. This assumes that Hyde will still choose to play Frazier at 2B against RHP, with Mateo moving to the bench and Gunnar at SS. 

vs RHP

Mullins CF
Adley C
Henderson SS
Santander DH
O'Hearn 1B
Hays LF
Hicks RF
Urias 3B
Frazier 2B

Would Hyde actually choose to play Westburg over Urias? I find that hard to believe. Nor do I think it's really that much of an upgrade right now.

This is the crux of why I think ultimately Westburg is really only here to play against this string of LH SP. I just don't know how he gets ABs vs RHP without injury or trade. 

IMO you are putting way too much stock on Hyde's shoulders in terms of decision making. I don't see a realistic/reasonable scenario where Hyde is going rogue and not playing the players that Elias/Sig want.

I can assure you that if he consistently did that, he would be looking for another employer VERY QUICKLY.

Hyde plays who he is told to play, end of story.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, forphase1 said:

Is Westburg REALLY that much of a better prospect than Ortiz?   I don't think so.  There is SOME gap there perhaps, but it isn't huge.  And we've seen how they have jerked Ortiz around IMO.  So nothing would surprise me really.

I respect your opinion and right to have one. But the consensus of the scouting community/ talent evaluators don't see things as you do. In most prospect rankings, they are not particularly closely rated as players. 

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Hyde plays who he is told to play, end of story.

True or not, Elias says otherwise.

 

[Bemorewins]

59 minutes ago, rm5678 said:

Trade bait would be the best use for Frazier at this point.

Trade him for what?? A bag of baseballs? He is an overpaid, underproducing player who is on the wrong side of 30. I can't see that having much of any value in the game. He's too old to be of use to a rebuilding team AND he makes too much money for the low level of production that he provides to be of much use to a contending team.