Grade our two deadline moves

[Sports Guy]

45 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm saying I'd be happy to part with a guy like Showalter if we went after a bigger fish than Flaherty.

 

But he would have been the third or fourth piece in that deal but better prospects attached with him.

Hes like the Tony Butler.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

But he would have been the third or fourth piece in that deal but better prospects attached with him.

Hes like the Tony Butler.

I’m aware. 
 

Yesterday, I was fully prepared to give away better prospects for a better pitcher. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I’m aware. 
 

Yesterday, I was fully prepared to give away better prospects for a better pitcher. 

But who? And how much better are they?

[BRobinsonfan]

I voted B-/C+ but I wish C/C+ had been an option.  We marginally improved our situation for this year without giving up too much, and perhaps that's the best thing to do, given that we have the second best record in baseball.  

[webbrick2010]

I'm really trying to understand how a guy with a 1.6 WHIP over his last 15 games even has a spot on a playoff roster.

Just another guy to collect a few innings, not even as good as Irvin.

I'm pretty sure we make the playoffs without him, I'm pretty sure we get bounced in the first round with him

So what was the point?

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But who? And how much better are they?

**** if I know, making up trades and patting yourself on the back for your genius is your game, not mine.

But yesterday, we had that back and forth, you threw out 4 names of prospects, IIRC it was Cowser, Kjerstad, Basallo and, I believe, Mayo.  Who would you depart with?

I told you Cowser and I told you my reasons why.  Cause I like Kjerstad's power better, Mayo's power better and Basallo might be the guy to move Adley off catcher.  And I like Cowser, I think he's been unjustly crucified on here for getting off to a slow start, but he's the guy I'd have been willing to part with before he showed up in Baltimore and started hitting like Tom Shopay.

So you tell me, who do you think we could get if we tacked Cowser onto the front of the package we gave up yesterday for Flaherty?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

**** if I know, making up trades and patting yourself on the back for your genius is your game, not mine.

But yesterday, we had that back and forth, you threw out 4 names of prospects, IIRC it was Cowser, Kjerstad, Basallo and, I believe, Mayo.  Who would you depart with?

I told you Cowser and I told you my reasons why.  Cause I like Kjerstad's power better, Mayo's power better and Basallo might be the guy to move Adley off catcher.  And I like Cowser, I think he's been unjustly crucified on here for getting off to a slow start, but he's the guy I'd have been willing to part with before he showed up in Baltimore and started hitting like Tom Shopay.

So you tell me, who do you think we could get if we tacked Cowser onto the front of the package we gave up yesterday for Flaherty?

Well if Cowser is on the table, the likely answer (unless team X just doesn’t like him) is that you could have gotten anyone that was traded at this deadline because he would have been the best prospect traded.

You also likely could have gotten the Tigers to trade ERod.

I don’t think Cowser plus this package gets you close to Cease.

Could Cowser have got other guys not known to be available? Maybe and I would have explored that.

The thing is, most pitchers that were dealt or realistically available were rentals. Are you giving up Cowser for a rental?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

 

The thing is, most pitchers that were dealt or realistically available were rentals. Are you giving up Cowser for a rental?

Depending on the rental, yeah, I'm open to it.  I mean, we're the best team in the league and we're putting some space between us and Toronto, Boston and New York.  Tampa is hanging around.  But it's the first week of August and we're in first place.  

No one expected to be here at this point this year.  And so I'm not pushing all my chips to the middle of the table, but I'd push the Cowser chip to the middle of the table.  

You mentioned it yesterday, with the way this franchise drafts college outfield bats, would he have been missed?  Hard to say, but there's a chance he wouldn't be.

So if you get a guy like E-Rod or Cease or a better pitcher than Flaherty that, like you said, that isn't known to have been on the market...you've got two months to make, hopefully a deep playoff run or a World Series run.  And then try to retain that rental in free agency.  Does a deep playoff run increase your chances in retaining?  I'd like to think so.

 This is probably a different conversation if Kjerstad isn't having the year he's having, btw.

 

[Just Regular]

I am curious to see whatever Jack Flaherty has become.    Not following the NL very much anymore, I probably have a bad anchor point as most of my memories are from the run when he was Spencer Strider.

He did have some bumps with the media earlier this year, and hopefully a scenery change is something benefitting the Club for these 9 weeks plus whatever extras are won.

[Just Regular]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 This is probably a different conversation if Kjerstad isn't having the year he's having, btw.

The Cowser v. Kjerstad thread was started for trade purposes, and now these few weeks it gets a new chapter on how the Club plans to build its A fall lineup.

Mountcastle's revival is fun, and I'll be curious to see if he can win the last job over both those kids.    I believe with health Hays-Mullins-Santander-O'Hearn cover four of the five OF/1B/DH slots against RHP.

[Brooks The Great]

Fuji - A-

Flaherty - B-

Not trading Urias or trading/DFA'ing Mateo to free up playing time for Westburg and Ortiz - D

Overall trade deadline grade - C+

[Fiver6565]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

So you're saying you'd have made a deal just to have made it to avoid backlash?  That sounds like a winning strategy.

No, I don't think Elias volunteered to throw in Showalter, I'm assuming he gave the Cardinals a list of prospects he'd have been willing to part with and told them to pick one.  

I've said all along, I wanted legit bullpen help.  A Robertson, a Chapman, someone like that.  Fuji is a good start, but I think we needed more.  People are acting like being able to shuffle in Wells and Hall into the bullpen is a big win for us; I'm not so sure.  

I'm glad you're excited about Flaherty.  I personally don't see how he moves the needle for us all that much but I'd love to be wrong (a very real possibility considering how scrap heap pickups like O'Hearn have performed under Elias).

I neither said that I am excited about Flaherty, not that I would have made a deal just to avoid backlash. But feel free to put words in my mouth, bu all means.
 

You said Rom and Prieto was enough. It clearly wasn’t, because if it was, a third player would not have been in the deal. And I’m betting that every single person complaining about losing Showalter would have also been complaining if no deal got done at all, that was my point. 

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I neither said that I am excited about Flaherty, not that I would have made a deal just to avoid backlash. But feel free to put words in my mouth, bu all means.
 

You said Rom and Prieto was enough. It clearly wasn’t, because if it was, a third player would not have been in the deal. And I’m betting that every single person complaining about losing Showalter would have also been complaining if no deal got done at all, that was my point. 

I'm sorry, I was picturing the backlash if no deal had been made.  I'm glad you wouldn't have made a deal just to avoid it, though.  That takes some balls.

Further apologies for not being clear, I should have said that I FELT that Rom and Prieto SHOULD have been enough.  Obviously, they weren't.  

Edited August 2, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[Sports Guy]

Gives some perspective on what we have up vs others.

[dzorange]

56 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

I'm really trying to understand how a guy with a 1.6 WHIP over his last 15 games even has a spot on a playoff roster.

Just another guy to collect a few innings, not even as good as Irvin.

I'm pretty sure we make the playoffs without him, I'm pretty sure we get bounced in the first round with him

So what was the point?

I feel like people on here severely overrate the Orioles pitching staff.

Not as good as Irvin is simply not true. Every year that Flaherty puts up 100+ innings he's proven that he has value. Irvin's two decent years came with 180IP each. His value came from being a workhorse.

You can make arguments for Gibson and Bradish being better than Flaherty, and Grayson depending on how quickly he adjusts to the big leagues, but that's about it. And if Flaherty performs better than Gibson and Bradish the rest of the way it wouldn't be surprising.