Jack Flaherty 2023

[vab]

Flaherty is just what his numbers indicated - a middling guy who's going to have some good games, some bad games and some in the middle. For what they were willing to give up it's about the best they could get. Hopefully they can improve him on the margins with some more time to work with him but he's not going to be any kind of true upgrade. He's just a guy who can help them get this rotation through the rest of the season with a reasonable chance to win most of the time. 

[bpilktree]

40 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

I'll forever remember 2023 as the season that the Rangers signed Scherzer and Montgomery, the Astros signed Verlander, the Phillies signed Lorenzen, and the O's signed freakin Flaherty.

The O's (Elias) either couldn't (Angelos) or wouldn't upgrade the roster when they had the #1 record in the American League, and a bunch of prospects wasting away in AAA.

Will they have the same chance next year? Can't be predicted

Will Angelos ever let them take a shot, I think that's a big negative.

No one signed anyone they traded for them.  The Orioles were not going to trade a top prospect and pay for Scherzer or Verlander so they were not a realistic option.   So the real question is between Lorenzen and Flaherty.  Did we make a solid offer for Lorenzen and the phillies made an offer that the Tigers liked better we may never know.   The Phillies traded Lee for him Lorenzen so the question is did we offer someone like Norby for him and they declined and asked for Ortiz and were we reluctant to do that.  I am fine with that decision however if we made lower offer and they countered with Norby and we declined I would be upset as Norby has no place here imo.  We just don’t know the details of what happened in trade discussions.  

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, vab said:

Flaherty is just what his numbers indicated - a middling guy who's going to have some good games, some bad games and some in the middle. For what they were willing to give up it's about the best they could get. Hopefully they can improve him on the margins with some more time to work with him but he's not going to be any kind of true upgrade. He's just a guy who can help them get this rotation through the rest of the season with a reasonable chance to win most of the time. 

Hopefully they can minimize any of the  horrific, godawful, worse than a random fan in the stands starts

[G54377]

The real hope was that even if he has a horrific first inning like last night, he can at least pitch his way through to the 5th. A guy who can't get past the 3rd is a problem. Any run of the mill ML pitcher can get you 3 crappy innings. Let's hope that type of game isn't something to expect again.

[Uli2001]

21 hours ago, OrangeTurtle said:

I can understand this viewpoint, but with our rotation being comprised of lots of young guns exceeding the most innings they've ever thrown + almost a lock for a team postseason berth at this point, would you not want to try to "preserve" what they have left for the postseason?

Or are you saying that a 6-man rotation might make them less sharp with respect to "crispness" and "momentum" in a playoff series?

I think 5-man is a reasonable compromise. Pitchers need work.

[DirtyBird]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, webbrick2010 said:

I'll forever remember 2023 as the season that the Rangers signed Scherzer and Montgomery, the Astros signed Verlander, the Phillies signed Lorenzen, and the O's signed freakin Flaherty.

Lorenzen did well last night

[ChosenOne21]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, webbrick2010 said:

I'll forever remember 2023 as the season that the Rangers signed Scherzer and Montgomery, the Astros signed Verlander, the Phillies signed Lorenzen, and the O's signed freakin Flaherty.

The O's (Elias) either couldn't (Angelos) or wouldn't upgrade the roster when they had the #1 record in the American League, and a bunch of prospects wasting away in AAA.

Will they have the same chance next year? Can't be predicted

Will Angelos ever let them take a shot, I think that's a big negative.

I wonder if our inability to sign anyone had something to do with the fact the team had been terrible for years and many considered our modicum of success last year to be a bit fluky. After this year where we've had clear success and are clearly on the rise, I wonder if we'll be better able to sign players if the dollar amounts are close.

[Sports Guy]

If the Phillies offered me Lorenzen for Flaherty today, I would laugh at them.

 

[Jim'sKid26]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If the Phillies offered me Lorenzen for Flaherty today, I would laugh at them.

 

@Sports Guy please help me understand your meaning here? Why would you value Jack over Lorenzen? Honest question.

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

@Sports Guy please help me understand your meaning here? Why would you value Jack over Lorenzen? Honest question.

Multiple reasons.

First of all, stuff matters in Oct. Guys who miss bats and get Ks are huge in the playoffs.

Secondly, Lorenzen hasn’t come close to this many innings in several years, so the wearing down factor is very possible.

I think Flaherty just has the higher upside, if you guaranteed me that Lorenzen won’t wear down, I would say his floor is higher because he has better command/control but that’s about it.

[Malike]

I'm not making excuses, but this is a guy who has spent his entire career with the same org that taught him the things they do. He's here now, and getting new information. He's going to have some starts that knock your socks off and people are going to say we need to lock him up long term, and he's going to have a stinker like he did in SD and people are going to mourn the loss of Prieto. There is no middle ground, good start, lock him up, bad start, this team made a horrible mistake.

[tntoriole]

It was mentioned in another thread about the idea of trying Jack in closer role? Or even high leverage role.  Intriguing as he did so last year 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnperrotto/2022/10/05/st-louis-cardinals-looking-for-important-outs-from-jack-flaherty-in-postseason/amp/

 

 

[ChuckS]

13 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

It was mentioned in another thread about the idea of trying Jack in closer role? Or even high leverage role.  Intriguing as he did so last year 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnperrotto/2022/10/05/st-louis-cardinals-looking-for-important-outs-from-jack-flaherty-in-postseason/amp/

 

 

I think Jack will be our fourth starter in the playoffs.  He's a guy you definitely have a quick hook for, and a piggy-back starter like Gibson or Irvin ready to go behind him.  But he has the stuff to give you five quality innings against a good team.    

[Tony-OH]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, webbrick2010 said:

I'll forever remember 2023 as the season that the Rangers signed Scherzer and Montgomery, the Astros signed Verlander, the Phillies signed Lorenzen, and the O's signed freakin Flaherty.

The O's (Elias) either couldn't (Angelos) or wouldn't upgrade the roster when they had the #1 record in the American League, and a bunch of prospects wasting away in AAA.

Will they have the same chance next year? Can't be predicted

Will Angelos ever let them take a shot, I think that's a big negative.

All of these teams traded for these players, not signed them.

Record since the trade deadline (Aug 1st until Sep 8th)
Orioles : 23-10
Rangers:  16-17
Astros: 20-16
Phillies: 20-13

So despite the Orioles lackluster trade deadline acquisition (So far) of Flaherty, they've had the best record of the teams you mentioned. 

So why the negativity? 

 

[tntoriole]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

All of these teams traded for these players, not signed them.

Record since the trade deadline (Aug 1st until Sep 8th)
Orioles : 23-10
Rangers:  16-17
Astros: 20-16
Phillies: 20-13

So despite the Orioles lackluster trade deadline acquisition (So far) of Flaherty, they've had the best record of the teams you mentioned. 

So why the negativity? 

 

Exactly.    For some, being “right” is far more important than facts.  Maybe with a World Series championship trophy, some people will have to acknowledge that maybe the  “well they could have done better with Scherzer “ talk was just nonsense lol  And that maybe Mike Elias is not quite as dumb as they seem to think lol