Are the O’s a good fielding team, or a bad one?

[Frobby]

Most nights, when the Orioles’ starting pitchers are interviewed, they make reference to the fact that the O’s are very good defensively and that the pitchers are confident letting opposing hitters put the ball in play.  And on broadcasts, the announcers reinforce this belief, with Ben McDonald usually referencing good old fielding percentage, where the Orioles currently rank 4th.

The advanced stats don’t all agree.  By Rdrs, which is the defensive input to rWAR, the O’s are +24, 8th best in MLB.  The other go-to advanced metric on Bb-ref, Rtot, has the O’s at +10, 12th in MLB.

Hopping over to the stats available on Fangraphs, UZR has the O’s at +18.6, 6th in MLB.  But OAA, which some people feel is the Holy Grail of advanced metrics, says the O’s are -12, 25th in MLB.  Fangraphs’ overall defensive stat, pegs the O’s at -14.3, 26th in MLB.  (I believe OAA is an input to the Fangraphs defense stat.)

So what the hell are the O’s?  Really good, really bad, or somewhere in between?  You can literally find a stat to spin it any way you want.   

My personal “eye test” opinion from watching the O’s and their opponents most games is that the O’s are a bit above average.   They’re not top shelf, but solid.  

Your view?
 

[Sports Guy]

Average to slightly above.

Frazier brings down the team OAA.

[G54377]

If we weren't always cute putting misfits in the OF or forcing Frazier into the field than we'd be in the top 10 range I think. As in, our best fielding lineup is pretty good but that's usually not who's out there.

[eddie83]

Last night right before the game MASN showed a graphic that the Orioles infield is +16 in defensive runs saved which is tied for 3rd in the league. Data from Stats Info Solutions. 
 

I tend to agree with your view which also leads to some questions come playoff time. Urias is a very good glove and Westburg at 2nd has been solid. When those two play that is the best defensive infield. Mullins makes a huge difference in the OF. I feel like Santander has been moving better this year. 

I’m sure specific matchups with help from the analytics department will continue to play a huge role. That said who winds up at DH will be interesting. I guess it’s possible McCann could get a start vs LHP with Adley at DH. I can’t see McCann vs a RHP. If the Orioles face a LHP will Adley DH or Santander with say Hicks playing RF happen? Teams will sometimes give up some defense if they’re hitting struggles in October. Hopefully it can be the opposite for the Orioles. 

[Sports Guy]

OAA doesn’t like Urias at third this year either.

[Otter]

Great question, and interesting how the advanced metrics can be so different.  Just from the eye test it feels like our defense is a little worse than last year.  And most of that impression is from Mateo looking worse than last year and Frazier's horrible range.  On the other hand, the more Henderson plays SS the better he looks to me.  I'd say we are above average (not elite) with Henderson at SS and Westburg at 2B instead of Frazier.

[forphase1]

We are about average IMO.  We make some great highlight reel type plays, but then boot quite a few routine ones.  I've also noticed that the scoring of hits versus errors seems to have been VERY generous lately, giving many hitters a 'hit' when I believe it would have been an error in past years.  We have some really good defenders (Mullins) and we have a few who are not very good (Frazier), and some that were good in the past have made some real bonehead plays or been worse than last year (Mateo, McKenna, Adley). 

As to what the pitchers say, I take all that stuff with a HUGE grain of salt.  The pitchers aren't going to say 'yeah they suck, and I cringe every time a hitter puts a ball into play'.  It's like the 'glue that holds the team together' and heaping praise on the Odors of the baseball world.  It's often not worth the ink and paper used to print them.  

[Hallas]

55 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

OAA doesn’t like Urias at third this year either.

This doesn't really pass the sniff test for me.  As far as I can tell Urias looks great at 3rd.

 

I do feel like to some extent, the banning of the shift made it really difficult to compare 2022 stats with 2023 stats.  I don't think it should have made a difference between 14 runs for Urias, because I think he looks good, but it certainly could have had an effect on Frazier, who went from +5 to -9 and looks pretty bad.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Hallas

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Frazier brings down the team OAA.

There it is!! I knew it!  Frazier is the itch that SG has gotta scratch!!!

 

[Aristotelian]

I think our current lineup (Westburg 2B, Frazier bench) is average, maybe slightly above. Everyone is pretty solid but Gunnar is the only one making spectacular plays on a regular basis. Urias, Westburg, and Mullins are all solid. Santander is probably the worst but even he has his share of good plays. I don't think anyone other than Frazier is really killing us, and even Frazier has been a bit better lately. 

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

There it is!! I knew it!  Frazier is the itch that SG has gotta scratch!!!

 

He is not wrong, Frazier OAA really jumps out. He singlehandedly drops us below average. Whether OAA is a good metric or not I can't really say  but Frazier has been surprisingly sloppy.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He is not wrong, Frazier OAA really jumps out. He singlehandedly drops us below average. Whether OAA is a good metric or not I can't really say  but Frazier has been surprisingly sloppy.

Of course he’s not wrong. He’s never wrong! Just ask him lol 

[Jim'sKid26]

This is a young and athletic team that has defensive flaws. They play some folks in positions that are poorly suited for their defensive skills. They don't throw particularly well in the outfield. Their catchers are underperforming defensively this year and several guys have regressed from last year. 

I think they have the potential to be much better than they have shown. I think they will be better next year when several of the younger, more athletic players are playing more.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

There it is!! I knew it!  Frazier is the itch that SG has gotta scratch!!!

 

Just pointing out a fact. I know, people hate those things but it is what it is.