John Angelos continues to remind us how awful he is

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, AdamK said:

There is not a person alive who thinks the Orioles aren’t extremely profitable at their current payroll level.  I could quibble with his numbers in a few categories, but why bother?

[drjohnnyfever1]

I'm so confused by this thread. lol

Why does it seem many people want all this young talent, that is presently cheap, to sign contracts that pay them more, increase our payroll, and don't extend them any further than when we'd have to sign them to their first FA contract?  Goodness.  The Co-Angelos-vid is spreading to the board!

There is no doubt that we try to sign all of our young talent, but what is the urgency?!  All that is doing is pushing the agenda that JA seems to desire - the further increase of ticket prices.

Luckily Elias seems to be sitting back and minding his business and we should be thankful.  But goodNESS, guys! 

[drjohnnyfever1]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

There is not a person alive who thinks the Orioles aren’t extremely profitable at their current payroll level.  I could quibble with his numbers in a few categories, but why bother?

True, but when you're GREEDY, there is ever enough!

[SomethingMagicHappens]

JohnA is a more arrogant, entitled and less intelligent version of his father.  Which takes some work.  When he says that the team can't operate at a loss....he's flat out lying.  They have not come close to a loss fiscally in a very long time.  And, even if they ran a small operating loss - he's neglecting the skyrocketing value of the franchise.  They paid, what....175 Mil?   Would get 1.5 BIL?   That's a ridiculous rate of return!  

He is far more concerned with lining his pockets than in winning a championship.  It's truly sad b/c I love this team & these players....but I'm slowly distancing myself from MLB & the O's b/c of ownership. I have long standing beef w/his dad (going back to Jon Miller, etc), and the son is even worse.  I want to be excited about playoff baseball, but every time I start to buy in fully with my heart....JohnA talks & I take a week off from MASN. 

It's frustrating.  Hoping that when the old man dies, JA sells to avoid the cap gains tax & we can get an owner who is willing to spend enough money to supplement Elias' drafting.  Give him a real budget & let him buy 2 arms, just get out of the way & stop sabotaging your baseball people.  If he doesn't sell.....I can't see this ending well.  We will have watched a championship window open & close and lament seeing Gunnar w/the Yankees, Adley w/the Dodgers & Holliday w/the Mets.    

[CallMeBrooksie]

3 minutes ago, drjohnnyfever1 said:

I'm so confused by this thread. lol

Why does it seem many people want all this young talent, that is presently cheap, to sign contracts that pay them more, increase our payroll, and don't extend them any further than when we'd have to sign them to their first FA contract?  Goodness.  The Co-Angelos-vid is spreading to the board!

There is no doubt that we try to sign all of our young talent, but what is the urgency?!  All that is doing is pushing the agenda that JA seems to desire - the further increase of ticket prices.

Luckily Elias seems to be sitting back and minding his business and we should be thankful.  But goodNESS, guys! 

Serious question... could you find one single post that advocates for giving our young players raises WITHOUT extending them. I think you've responded to a pretty silly straw-man.

Also, the urgency is that the closer a star player gets to free agency, the less likely they are to sign an extension. The value isn't there for the player unless they get paid their full market value. They're more likely to consider a pre-arb extension that gives them a significant raise in the 'team-control' years. Why would I like to see them try this approach? Because the fans benefit from keeping star players longer, the players benefit because they deserve to get paid what they're worth, and ownership can easily afford it.

They could try and fail, and that's understandable. It takes two to tango, but we have every indication that they have not tried.

By the way, this could be accomplished without raising ticket prices. That was blatant lie from John.

 

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

 Elias knows that drafting low does not get the same quality players that drafting high does.  

1. So he will trade players approaching FA  for prospects that his scouts and analytics say will develop into good MLB players.   

2.  He also is signing international players he thinks he can develop into MLB players.

That is the plan to keep the O's farm system and the major league team at or near the top in the rankings.    

He may not have the money to sign his players before they go to FA but he can keep find young players to replacement them.  Bradish becoming one the the best starters in the majors is just the beginning.

Ok but I’m trying to figure out what this has to do with any of the discussion being had about JA in this thread?

[Sports Guy]

22 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You just said he would get less.   Read your own posts.

In a best case scenario situation. He’s also guaranteeing himself generational wealth while MAYBE getting less money.

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok but I’m trying to figure out what this has to do with any of the discussion being had about JA in this thread?

Fans say the O's have to extend their players before they go into FA.   I am not sure that is even in the plan that Elias agreed to with JA when he was hired.

It may be to build a scouting, analytics and player development system include international that develops players with enough quality  and volume to replace players after 5 or 6 years  so that the team remains contenders for the World Series year after year.

Edited August 22, 2023 by wildcard

[Bemorewins]

28 minutes ago, wildcard said:

 Elias knows that drafting low does not get the same quality players that drafting high does.  

1. So he will trade players approaching FA  for prospects that his scouts and analytics say will develop into good MLB players.   

2.  He also is signing international players he thinks he can develop into MLB players.

That is the plan to keep the O's farm system and the major league team at or near the top in the rankings.    

He may not have the money to sign his players before they go to FA but he can keep find young players to replacement them.  Bradish becoming one the the best starters in the majors is just the beginning.

What if he doesn’t want to deal with the albatross that Angelos is longterm?

It seems to reason that he will have other options at some point in the future. Friedman left, Beane stayed. I know which one appears to have made the better decision.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

What if he doesn’t want to deal with the albatross that Angelos is longterm?

It seems to reason that he will have other options at some point in the future. Friedman left, Beane stayed. I know which one appears to have made the better decision.

But the Rays have continued to do well since Friedman left.  The real issue is, if Elias leaves at some point, does he leave behind some key people and processes that will allow the team to continue to operate well?   Or, does he leave behind an empty husk?  

[deward]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Fans say the O's have to extend their players before they go into FA.   I am not sure that is even in the plan that Elias agreed to with JA when he was hired.

It may be to build a scouting, analytics and player development system include international that develops players with enough quality  and volume to replace players after 5 or 6 years  that the team remains contenders for the World Series year after year.

I think it would be exceedingly cocky of Elias to think that he can keep running a factory line of top prospects and maintain the quality of the team at a championship level without ever spending any money to keep key guys around. Not even the Dodgers and Rays do that. I don't like plans that rely on everything going perfectly.

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Fans say the O's have to extend their players before they go into FA.   I am not sure that is even in the plan that Elias agreed to with JA when he was hired.

It may be to build a scouting, analytics and player development system include international that develops players with enough quality  and volume to replace players after 5 or 6 years  that the team remains contenders for the World Series year after year.

Well this is obvious…I have been saying this for years. Most players aren’t worthy of extensions. Most players aren’t even worthy of paying arb2 or arb3 prices. Those guys should be traded before they get expensive and lose value. Make someone else pay those prices.

Right now, the Os have 2 players in the organization that are definitely worthy of extensions and another that is likely worthy.  That’s probably about it. There should never be a hesitation to sign guys.

Atlanta probably signed too many players to be honest.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

What if he doesn’t want to deal with the albatross that Angelos is longterm?

It seems to reason that he will have other options at some point in the future. Friedman left, Beane stayed. I know which one appears to have made the better decision.

Beane also has partial ownership I believe.

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

What if he doesn’t want to deal with the albatross that Angelos is longterm?

It seems to reason that he will have other options at some point in the future. Friedman left, Beane stayed. I know which one appears to have made the better decision.

Elias leaving is my biggest fear.  Notice that JA does not meddle (as far as we know) in Elias baseball operation.   Not like his father did.

Hopefully JA knows what he has in Elias and has him on a lucrative profit sharing plan.

[baltfan]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Attendance is essentially determined before the first pitch of the season is ever thrown.

You won’t be in first place if you have to get rid of your players when they start making real money.

That’s an insane take to make and isn’t supported by the fact that the Reds were supposed to be awful and then started to draw like crazy once they started streaking.   What you say re attendance is applicable to the floor vs the ceiling. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by baltfan