Trevor Bauer

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Defamation:

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

-but-

In 1964 the Supreme Court ruled in New York Times Co. v Sullivan that the defamatory statement(s) had to be made with "actual malice".  Since then, this has had the effect of raising the bar VERY high and consequently you rarely see defamation suits in the US.  Certainly in comparison to places like Great Britain.

Should Bauer decide to bring suit, he will have to also prove malice which I think is unlikely to be successful.  It will also serve to put the spotlight squarely back on him  for an extended time in a post #metoo media environment.  No sensible team is going to want to be associated with that circus so the Orioles should stay far, far away from Trevor Bauer.

 

Sure would be nice to go through that "reporter's" text message and emails though.

[Gurgi]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

As someone defending Bauer in this thread, I'll repeat for the 4th time: I have no interest in him being a Baltimore Oriole.

I vote with this.   Bauer was mistreated because of the nature of the accusations which have proven to be false.   Still dont want him.  Too much headache.  

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

If I were defending the Catholic Church, I'm not sure I would want to pull out the scorebook to determine which group was rife with sex criminals.

Nobody brought up the Catholic Church, but even with all its problems, the sex criminal ratio is still far higher among the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence than it is among priests.  

[MurphDogg]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

I know the writer wrote something that was not true.  I know the writer should not have written that untruth if they practiced the basic ethics of their profession.

Were they lying intentionally?  Absolutely imo.

Did they fail the basic ethics of their profession?  Absolutely, undoubtedly, a matter of fact.

You absolutely do not know that though.

The writer could have had other medical records.

Bauer could be lying about what was in the medical records that they did have. There are degrees of skull fracture and doctors can disagree. Perhaps the alleged victim has a medical expert that would testify that the images in the medical records are consistent with a skull fracture and Bauer's medical expert would argue otherwise.

You are simply relying on Trevor Bauer's word (and his uncontested court filings). Maybe he is right, but he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

[MurphDogg]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Nobody brought up the Catholic Church, but even with all its problems, the sex criminal ratio is still far higher among the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence than it is among priests.  

You brought up blasphemy and sacrilege which are not crimes in America, and are only issues relating to the Catholic Church. As to your claim of sex criminal ratio, I would need citations as to whether your claim is true.

[SilentJames]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ah, Ray Lewis is always the exception for a Ravens fan.  So if I understand you correctly, your morals have changed as you've gotten older but you're still sort of giving Ray Lewis a pass here.   

Baseball seasons are long, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.  It's not like a football player has to pause his woman-beating proclivities during their shorter season.  With social media today, any player in any sport can be a "raging unrepentant douche" at any time of the year.  Comparing the length of a football season to the length of a baseball season here isn't a great arguing point, especially when the NFL has fashioned itself into a year round sport.  Even if games aren't being played, there's the draft, free agency, training camps, etc.  There's a reason why the NFL and the NBA are the first things that ESPN covers no matter what.

But ultimately, you're right.  Organizations have to decide whether or not it's worth it.  And no, the calculus isn't always different with baseball and football.  I mean, Marcell Ozuna is still playing.  Julio Urias came back after his first domestic battery suspension, I would bet he'll come back again.  Aroldis Chapman.  Jimmy Cordero.  Addison Russell.  Roberto Osuna.  This idea that the "calculus is different" is hilarious.

Talent usually wins out.  Not always, there are exceptions, but it usually does.  

Nah I'm saying that when I was younger I looked the other way I equivocated, I don't now. I don't want the Ray Lewis statue up there. I genuinely don't think he killed anyone - but he has never been remarkably forthcoming about what happened that night, and his manic street-preacher schtick is tiresome at best. If I never hear Ray Lewis' name again I would be fine with that. 

I stopped watching the Ravens on a weekly basis after Ray Rice, I pretty much dropped watching football on the whole after the blackballing of Kaepernick and various other things. Lamar is so damn entertaining that its almost brought me back. I'm saying if I was who I was today, when the Ray Lewis stuff went down, I would have walked like I did when the Ray Rice stuff happened.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Why do you think it's a false equivalency?  Not trying to fight but I think the two situations reflect rather profoundly upon each other.

 

I really don't want to keep going down the rabbit hole of socio/political agendas.  And I'm not trying to duck this question but I'll explain it gently as I can:

What Bauer allegedly did was wrong.  Could the Dodgers have handled it differently?  Probably, but that's not what we're talking about here.  Assuming he actually did what he was accused of is something that everyone, everywhere should be repulsed by, no matter what someone's race, gender, sexual preference is.  

That's very different from an inclusivity night at a ballpark.  

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

You absolutely do not know that though.

The writer could have had other medical records.

Bauer could be lying about what was in the medical records that they did have. There are degrees of skull fracture and doctors can disagree. Perhaps the alleged victim has a medical expert that would testify that the images in the medical records are consistent with a skull fracture and Bauer's medical expert would argue otherwise.

You are simply relying on Trevor Bauer's word (and his uncontested court filings). Maybe he is right, but he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

You're far more generous than I when it comes to giving the benefit of the doubt to reporters.  

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, SilentJames said:

Nah I'm saying that when I was younger I looked the other way I equivocated, I don't now. I don't want the Ray Lewis statue up there. I genuinely don't think he killed anyone - but he has never been remarkably forthcoming about what happened that night, and his manic street-preacher schtick is tiresome at best. If I never hear Ray Lewis' name again I would be fine with that. 

I stopped watching the Ravens on a weekly basis after Ray Rice, I pretty much dropped watching football on the whole after the blackballing of Kaepernick and various other things. Lamar is so damn entertaining that its almost brought me back. I'm saying if I was who I was today, when the Ray Lewis stuff went down, I would have walked like I did when the Ray Rice stuff happened.  

Fair enough.

 

[Pickles]

Just now, MurphDogg said:

You brought up blasphemy and sacrilege which are not crimes in America, and are only issues relating to the Catholic Church. As to your claim of sex criminal ratio, I would need citations as to whether your claim is true.

I didn't say they were crimes.

I said a business that was worried about "offending" their customers or "protecting their brand" wouldn't celebrate such a group.

But they did because this has nothing to do with not "offending" customers or "protecting a brand."

[MurphDogg]

Just now, Pickles said:

You're far more generous than I when it comes to giving the benefit of the doubt to reporters.  

It isn't the reporters that I trust, it is the overall publishing process with editors and lawyers whose job it is to not lose a defamation lawsuit. The Athletic is not a small outfit and I would not expect them to have gotten out over their skis on this one. Yes, it happens, but it is incredibly rare, so I think there being a real dispute of fact over what the medical records says is by far the most likely possibility.

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I really don't want to keep going down the rabbit hole of socio/political agendas.  And I'm not trying to duck this question but I'll explain it gently as I can:

What Bauer allegedly did was wrong.  Could the Dodgers have handled it differently?  Probably, but that's not what we're talking about here.  Assuming he actually did what he was accused of is something that everyone, everywhere should be repulsed by, no matter what someone's race, gender, sexual preference is.  

That's very different from an inclusivity night at a ballpark.  

It's a conversation that is inappropriate for this board, unfortunately.

I concede your perspective, though I think it's wrong.

I think if Bauer was guilty of what he was accused of everyone should be repulsed by it.

I too think everyone should be offended by the satanic celebration of sex criminals and the mocking of an entire religion and its associated symbols, at least in such a public forum as a baseball game.  Regardless of what cute name you want to dress it up under.

When's that game get here again?  LOL.  This is going to be a long week on this board.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

It isn't the reporters that I trust, it is the overall publishing process with editors and lawyers whose job it is to not lose a defamation lawsuit. The Athletic is not a small outfit and I would not expect them to have gotten out over their skis on this one. Yes, it happens, but it is incredibly rare, so I think there being a real dispute of fact over what the medical records says is by far the most likely possibility.

As pointed out before, losing a defamation lawsuit is virtually impossible in this country.

That's one of the reasons we have the media environment we have.

We already know they at least "got out over their skis" and frankly, that's the most charitable way it can be put.

[Hank Scorpio]

Hey, there are games tonight that will impact us!!!!!!!!!!! 
 

[SilentJames]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Fair enough.

 

I will give Ray Lewis some credit in that he was a fairly model citizen after that incident. And he did some real good things for Baltimore kids long after he retired Vision for Baltimore is one of those perfect simple things that has done SO MUCH GOOD for school kids in the City (https://health.baltimorecity.gov/visionforbaltimore)

Still though, dude, he knows what happened. Like that statue is a bit much.