If Elias told Holliday right now that he was in line to play 2B/backup CF?

[emmett16]

9 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

How much work does it require? It’s literally nothing more than reading balls off the bat. And these guys do this every day shagging balls during batting practice.

There are 30 CF jobs in the world.  It’s very difficult.  Requires and incredible amount of work.  

[Moose Milligan]

50 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s all okay, just so long as he wins the Triple Crown and bats .400 once he’s up.  

Pedestrian. 

[DirtyBird]

24 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

There are 30 CF jobs in the world.  It’s very difficult.  Requires and incredible amount of work.  

Do you really think that the 30 best fielding center fielders hold those 30 jobs?

[RZNJ]

8 hours ago, forphase1 said:

First, you are talking about backup to Mullins in your post.  Not sure that Ortiz or Norby should be part of that discussion.

McKenna will be out of options, and frankly I don't think he's good enough to have stuck on the MLB roster all year.  Him having options was one of the only reasons he was valuable this past year as a AAAA type player, we could bounce him up and down as needed.  Without that flexibility he's not worth keeping around IMO.

Mateo I don't want on the team at all for reasons I've stated many times this last year.  Yes, if Hyde would simply let him be a bench player, then I'd be ok with it.  But we all know he's going to start WAY more than his bat deserves if he's on the team.  Plus the idea of him backing up Mullins isn't really a good one....we've seen no evidence really that he'd be a great CF, just because he's blazing fast.  He doesn't hit and his defense seriously regressed.  I'd rather see someone with a better bat fill his spot.

Hicks - I don't think he has the wheels any more to be a good backup for Mullins.  Yeah, the bat played pretty well this year, but again, if we are talking about Mullins backup I don't like Hicks in that role.  His defense in CF just isn't good enough.  If we are going to put up with that kind of a defender in CF, then he'd better REALLY hit, and hit better than Hicks did.  I do think it likely we resign him as he's going to be incredibly cheap, but I'd rather if we didn't.  But, of the 3, I'd probably be most OK with having Hicks around.

 

McKenna didn't bounce down the first time until very late in the season.  He didn't really bounce up and down the first 4 months of the season.

[Sports Guy]

The Os are not going to take Holliday off of SS right now. He may play some other positions at times but he will primarily be at SS while in the minors imo.

Now, we will see how things develop as to whether or not he stays there and maybe they consider CF down the road but I think it’s pretty clear they view Bradfield as the long term CF solution, although he obviously has a ways to go offensively.

I think we will have a far clearer picture of the up the middle defense after 2024.  Right now, it’s going to be muddled a little bit but at least it’s muddled with a lot of talent.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Sports Guy

[forphase1]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

McKenna didn't bounce down the first time until very late in the season.  He didn't really bounce up and down the first 4 months of the season.

He was optioned 4 times,  the first being early July.  That was part of his value,  obviously,  or it wouldn't have happened.  That's now gone. We will see if the Os think he has enough value/talent to be stuck in the MLB roster all year.   I don't think he does,  but the decision isn't mine of course.  but we have to have a viable option to back up Mullins, and I'm really not sure who that'll be.   I really don't love any of our current choices.

[Aristotelian]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The Os are not going to take Holliday off of SS right now. He may play some other positions at times but he will primarily be at SS while in the minors imo.

Now, we will see how things develop as to whether or not he stays there and maybe they consider CF down the road but I think it’s pretty clear they view Bradfield as the long term CF solution, although he obviously has a ways to go offensively.

I think we will have a far clearer picture of the up the middle defense after 2024.  Right now, it’s going to be muddled a little bit but at least it’s muddled with a lot of talent.

Could they try Westburg in CF? (Or LF with Hays/Mullins in CF). We've seen him get back on balls hit over his head. He is second on the team in sprint speed behind only Mateo, and I think he would have a better arm than Mullins. Of course his bat still needs to develop. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/team/110?view=statcast&nav=running&season=2023

 

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Could they try Westburg in CF? (Or LF with Hays/Mullins in CF). We've seen him get back on balls hit over his head. He is second on the team in sprint speed behind only Mateo, and I think he would have a better arm than Mullins. Of course his bat still needs to develop. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/team/110?view=statcast&nav=running&season=2023

 

People keep bringing up Westburg as an OFer and I don’t get why. The Orioles are loaded with OF prospects. Westburg has shown he can play a GG level second base and, imo, he can be a solid third baseman as well.

Why would you take him off of what he knows to have go do what he doesn’t know and block other players who actually play that position?

I know people have talked about a super UTI role for him and I’m not saying it can’t happen but I just don’t see the need to do it.

To me, Westburg should either be starting at second or third or he should be traded.

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

People keep bringing up Westburg as an OFer and I don’t get why.

Cause he's kind of fast.  

I'm with you though, I don't really get it.  But whatever.  

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

People keep bringing up Westburg as an OFer and I don’t get why. The Orioles are loaded with OF prospects. Westburg has shown he can play a GG level second base and, imo, he can be a solid third baseman as well.

Why would you take him off of what he knows to have go do what he doesn’t know and block other players who actually play that position?

I know people have talked about a super UTI role for him and I’m not saying it can’t happen but I just don’t see the need to do it.

To me, Westburg should either be starting at second or third or he should be traded.

I'm not pushing this hard, but we don't have a MLB ready CF prospect for 2024. Mullins was bad enough at the end of the year that we may want a Plan B, so Westburg came to mind. If we're going to mess with an infield prospect, I'd rather it be Westburg than Holliday. 

[Bemorewins]

The line of questions posed by the OP seems to be the type of logic that would be used to keep Holliday off of the Opening Day roster or to artificially try to place another player in front of him to give that player a looksie. I have never heard of evaluating a top prospects based on whether or not he can back up a position that he has never played before. Back up players by their definition don't have to be great, serviceable is usually the barometer for success. I have not heard of any org evaluating the #1 prospect at that time with regards to his abilities as a backup. That's a total waste of the players potential/value.

Also, Mullins while having a poor September/October, should not need to be a platoon player. If his availability will be next year what it was this year (often injured), he should probably under consideration for replacement. But to expect Holliday to play anywhere close to the caliber of defense in CF (as a rookie) that Mullins plays, IMO is a unnecessary hurdle for him to have to climb. Again, nobody treats top tier prospects that way.

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I'm not pushing this hard, but we don't have a MLB ready CF prospect for 2024. Mullins was bad enough at the end of the year that we may want a Plan B, so Westburg came to mind. If we're going to mess with an infield prospect, I'd rather it be Westburg than Holliday. 

Or, we could just add a back up CFer. Or we use Hays in that role. Or we use Cowser out there if needed.(I don’t think he’s a CFer but you can use him in a pinch if needs be)

Edited October 16, 2023 by Sports Guy

[RZNJ]

Obviously, the Orioles drafted Enrique Bradfield with the hope that he might one day be their starting CF.   That’s one thing.  Saying they view him as the future CF seems a lot different to me.   Bradfield hasn’t passed the A ball test yet.  I highly doubt the Orioles are putting all of their eggs in that basket.

As for backup CF, I can live with McKenna.  The fact that he’s out of options is just something to be worked around OR at some point Haskin or Fabian could be options.

Edited October 16, 2023 by RZNJ

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Obviously, the Orioles drafted Enrique Bradfield with the hope that he might one day be their starting CF.   That’s one thing.  Saying they view him as the future CF seems a lot different to me.   Bradfield hasn’t passed the A ball test yet.  I highly doubt the Orioles are putting all of their eggs in that basket.

As for backup CF, I can live with McKenna.  The fact that he’s out of options is just something to be worked around OR at some point Haskin or Fabian could be options.

I agree with all this.  I’m not assuming Bradfield will hit enough to be a starting CF in the majors.  He may, but he’ll have to prove it as he moves up the ladder.  He batted .302 at Delmarva in 77 PA but with an ISO of only .038, and from what I heard, several of his hits were infield singles that might not have been hits against a major league defense.   At Aberdeen in 21 PA he hit .118 with an ISO of .000.   In both cases, it was a small sample size and he was just getting his feet wet in pro ball, so I’m not too worked up about the numbers.   But at the same time, I’m not just going to assume that he’ll hit.  Go prove it.  

[Aristotelian]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Or, we could just add a back up CFer. Or we use Hays in that role. Or we use Cowser out there if needed.(I don’t think he’s a CFer but you can use him in a pinch if needs be)

Again, I am not pressing this, just playing Devil's Advocate here. But if we were looking to play Holliday in CF, I think the idea would be as a primary CF. Mullins repeated last year's .721, but struggled with injuries and was really bad in August and Sept, and of course 0 for the playoffs. I can't speak for wildcard, but my thinking would be if Holliday were to prepare to play there, it would be in more than a backup role, likely because Mullins is continuing on a downward trajectory.