I’ve Come Around on 13 Pitchers

[Anonymous]

I didn’t want 13 pitchers last year because I wanted Scott Moore (and didn’t want to lose his final option); I wanted Oscar Salazar (and didn’t want to lose his final option); I wanted Sweet Lou Montanez (who was destroying the Eastern League). And I had no special desire to see roster spots for these guys sacrificed for the likes of Greg Aquino and Rocky Cherry. I understood the reason the team felt it had to do so, in preserving a shaky pitching staff. Yet I felt we could have done so simply by stretching out guys, and letting the long relievers really act like long relievers. If they have to come into a game in the 2nd inning, fine – let them pitch until the 7th or 8th or even go the whole way.

This year things are different. I'm assuming Wiggy can serve as the # 2 SS (BIG assumption ... but Wiggy clearly seems anxious to give it a go). In that case ... Even though I like the idea of Moore’s lefty bat offering platoon possibilities with Mora, Scott would definitely benefit from a full year of 3B work at Norfolk. Salazar wouldn’t have an obvious role on this team, with Wiggy in the fold. Montanez would benefit from a year of concentrating on defense, defense, defense at Norfolk. Meanwhile, I see real value in just about every bubble-potential pitcher who would have to be exposed if we go with a 12-man staff rather than 13. So at this point I’m not only at peace with 13 pitchers – I’m rooting for it, even if we don’t NEED it. I don’t want to lose Penn or Pauley. I like Bass and Simon better than most. Sarfate was erratic, but has a golden arm. Parrish is intriguing and has an opt-out. Baez and Walker have contract value. If Albers and Patton are in good health, we may need roster spots for them. Hennessey, while on a minors contract, may force his way into the picture. Squeezing down to 12 pitchers just doesn’t seem to make sense at this point.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm probably the only one who doesn't care whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers or not.

At some time or another this season we'll have 12...some time or another, we'll have 13.

I know I'm wrong for thinking this way...but I just don't care. Injuries are gonna mess with the sanctity of roster management sooner or later.

[McNulty]

Injuries are gonna mess with the sanctity of roster management sooner or later.

Seriously. Its like trying to project the rotation in 2011. What's the point?

[AgentOrange]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm probably the only one who doesn't care whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers or not.

At some time or another this season we'll have 12...some time or another, we'll have 13.

I know I'm wrong for thinking this way...but I just don't care. Injuries are gonna mess with the sanctity of roster management sooner or later.

I don't really think that is the issue at hand with carrying 12 or 13 pitchers right now. I think it more has to do with the fact that we have a couple of pitchers who are out of options right now and being able to carry a 3 man bench would help that out.

That is why I think it is important to see if Freel or Wiggington can play SS or not.

[JTrea81]

13 pitchers has been and always will be a stupid idea, just like it was to spend $42 million on bullpen pitchers. Without a 4 man bench you can't PH and you can't rest guys regularly that need a break and that 13th pitcher always goes at least 4-5 days between appearances.

If you have 4 guys that are solid in the rotation, you don't need 13 pitchers. If the Orioles have to go with 13 pitchers, that means the FO was too incompetent to find 4 solid starters. Also considering that guys like Pedro Martinez and Mark Mulder are still out there, there's no excuse to go into the regular season with 3 questionable starters after Guthrie and Uehara (who is really a ? himself).

[billyc123]

I agree generally that 13 pitchers is a stupid idea because it forces a team to compromise on its day-to-day flexibility and late game strategy. However, I can also see how at some point or another during the season, it might make sense for this team given the considerable question marks in the starting rotation.

I also think it's great that, although the question/problem of carrying 13 pitchers persists this season, the reasons for doing so seem to have changed. To wit, last year, the team needed to carry 13 pitchers to bolster the starting pitching. This year, there might be too many pitchers who are too good to send down/try to pass through waivers. Granted, the starting pitching is still a huge question mark, but at least I feel better about the quality of arms that will be in the bullpen regardless of whether there are 7 or 8 of them.

[JTrea81]

I don't really think that is the issue at hand with carrying 12 or 13 pitchers right now. I think it more has to do with the fact that we have a couple of pitchers who are out of options right now and being able to carry a 3 man bench would help that out.

That is why I think it is important to see if Freel or Wiggington can play SS or not.

There is no reason to keep Hayden Penn on this team if he's only going to pitch 1-2 innings every 5-6 days. Trade him or cut him loose if he can't start. Ditto for Hill if he can't come back. There's no point in carrying those two if they can't be starting pitchers. The Orioles have too many starters behind them to carry those two in the hopes they can fix their problems by pitching only 1-2 times for an inning or two every two weeks. If Penn and Hill can't hack it, see if Liz, Bergesen, Arrieta, Tillman, Hernandez etc. can.

The Orioles waited too long to deal Penn and don't have anything really invested in Hill, so if they aren't ML pitchers, it's time to starting weeding guys like them out and give opportunities to guys who show they can be ML pitchers.

[Satyr3206]

There is no reason to keep Hayden Penn on this team if he's only going to pitch 1-2 innings every 5-6 days. Trade him or cut him loose if he can't start. Ditto for Hill if he can't come back. There's no point in carrying those two if they can't be starting pitchers. The Orioles have too many starters behind them to carry those two in the hopes they can fix their problems by pitching only 1-2 times for an inning or two every two weeks. If Penn and Hill can't hack it, see if Liz, Bergesen, Arrieta, Tillman, Hernandez etc. can.

That's a good point. If you keep 13 then a couple of them are going to get a lot of pine time and that will hurt their effectiveness. Keeping 13 is a bad idea from many perspectives and it tends to show how good a manager is at handling his staff.

[Sports Guy]

There really isn't one valid point in carrying 13 pitchers.

[El Gordo]

There probably won't be a need for 13. It seems to me Bass, Pauley, Hill, Penn, Sarfate, Baez and Walker would all have to be lights out for that to become necessary. Not likely to happen.

[midwest birdfan]

It all comes down to one thing-winning. A 13th pitcher has never won a game for the Orioles(I could be wrong). I think you carry the top 25 players. Carrying relief pitchers who give up 8-9 runs a game has nothing too do with winning. When the DH started back in 1973 teams actually cutback on their pitching staffs(believe it or not the relief pitchers pitched longer). This obsession about carrying one-inning relief pitchers has been one of the main reasons the Orioles have had 11 consecutive losing seasons. One long reliefer can take the place of three short reliefers. I wish MLB would cut the rosters back to 24 players so we wouldn't see 6 pitching changes in the sixth inning.

[Frobby]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm probably the only one who doesn't care whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers or not.

At some time or another this season we'll have 12...some time or another, we'll have 13.

I know I'm wrong for thinking this way...but I just don't care. Injuries are gonna mess with the sanctity of roster management sooner or later.

Count me in your camp.

[RShack]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm probably the only one who doesn't care whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers or not.

At some time or another this season we'll have 12...some time or another, we'll have 13.

I know I'm wrong for thinking this way...but I just don't care. Injuries are gonna mess with the sanctity of roster management sooner or later.

I agree with every bit of this.

It's mainly Yet Another Issue for some folks to get up-in-arms about. I'm quite sure that DT would love to have the bigger bench. Agree or disagree with whatever he and AM do about the roster, but I'm sure they're not taking it lightly. It's not like those who favor the bigger bench have some great idea that never occurred to DT and AM. Regardless, the issue will become a bit of trivia history once the pitching gets straightened out, whenever that is. It's just a transient issue, and it's a symptom, not a cause.

[Anonymous]

I concede that it does boggle the mind a bit that so many folks (AgentOrange not among them, of course) have zero interest in the preservation of potentially valuable assets for 2010 and beyond.

[Lucky Jim]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm probably the only one who doesn't care whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers or not.

At some time or another this season we'll have 12...some time or another, we'll have 13.

I know I'm wrong for thinking this way...but I just don't care. Injuries are gonna mess with the sanctity of roster management sooner or later.

Seriously. Its like trying to project the rotation in 2011. What's the point?

Count me in your camp.

I agree with every bit of this.

Ditto. Etc.