I’ve Come Around on 13 Pitchers

[Sports Guy]

I concede that it does boggle the mind a bit that so many folks (AgentOrange not among them, of course) have zero interest in the preservation of potentially valuable assets for 2010 and beyond.

You are surprised that people don't want to handcuff the team so that we don't lose replaceable players that can be picked up at any point?

You are surprised that we don't want a short bench so theat we can continue to drive the regulars into the ground?

We have 12 spots to keep players on this team...Losing some of the names you mentioned mean nothing.

[Anonymous]

You are surprised that people don't want to handcuff the team so that we don't lose replaceable players that can be picked up at any point?

You are surprised that we don't want a short bench so theat we can continue to drive the regulars into the ground?

We have 12 spots to keep players on this team...Losing some of the names you mentioned mean nothing.

You don't think there's future value in ANY of the bubble arms?

[Sports Guy]

You don't think there's future value in ANY of the bubble arms?

Sure, there is a chance....But losing them now doesn't hurt you...You just pick up the next one that is on the waiver wire that you can put in AAA.

They are dime a dozen arms for a reason.

Look, for years I have hated how this team doesn't give chances to guys like Knott, House, Cust, etc....

I think that has been a bad move on their part.

Some of the guys you mentioned could be similar to those guys, just off the mound...The difference is we have younger, more talented arms behind our "main players" and losing those guys matters very little.

If you care that much about those guys, then you cut Walker, Baez and Hendrickson. You don't handcuff a manager that is already shaky with his extra players to begin with...It is just a poor strategy all around.

[Sports Guy]

Anon....BTW, remind me again how we acquired Simon, Bass and Parrish?

[Ven6]

It's just a transient issue, and it's a symptom, not a cause.

Really great point. It's not part of some long-term master plan. It's a result of a couple of things. This year, it could be the result of a good problem: too many out of option guys step up, and Baez and Walker show they're back in a big way.

I, for one, would take that 13 pitcher scenario in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anon....BTW, remind me again how we acquired Simon, Bass and Parrish?

OK, granted that we've had some success in picking up these kinds of guys. That doesn't mean I'm casual about the idea of throwing them away either. I expect that there will be at least one pitcher whom we're forced to jettison at the end of ST that we'll wind up feeling regretful about, from a 2010 and beyond perspective. I definitely don't have that feeling about any of the position players. I'm willing to be handcuffed a bit on the bench for 2009 to preserve the pitching assets for 2010. I THOUGHT that the whole point of this rebuild was to accept some short-term pain for the long-term gain!

[Sports Guy]

OK, granted that we've had some success in picking up these kinds of guys. That doesn't mean I'm casual about the idea of throwing them away either. I expect that there will be at least one pitcher whom we're forced to jettison at the end of ST that we'll wind up feeling regretful about, from a 2010 and beyond perspective. I definitely don't have that feeling about any of the position players. I'm willing to be handcuffed a bit on the bench for 2009 to preserve the pitching assets for 2010. I THOUGHT that the whole point of this rebuild was to accept some short-term pain for the long-term gain!

Sure...with good players.

You are advocating poor roster management to keep around dime a dozen arms.

Just isn't logical.

[Anonymous]

Really great point. It's not part of some long-term master plan. It's a result of a couple of things. This year, it could be the result of a good problem: too many out of option guys step up, and Baez and Walker show they're back in a big way.

I, for one, would take that 13 pitcher scenario in a heartbeat.

Rshack's supposedly really great point was made in the context of him AGREEING with the Moose that they don't give a bleep whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers, which means (to me) that they're either wearing blinders with respect to the 2010 time-frame and beyond, or they're just feeling relaxed on a nice Sunday afternoon!

But I'm glad to see you're picking up on the 13-pitcher scenario. It's not a 2009 issue, which most of the other posters seem obsessed with. It's a long-term planning issue. How do we preserve valuable assets? To me, 13 pitchers is the obvious way to do it.

[Anonymous]

Sure...with good players.

You are advocating poor roster management to keep around dime a dozen arms.

Just isn't logical.

If it turns out at the end of ST that the 13th pitcher is a dime-a-dozen club member, then I wouldn't quarrel with your idea. I'm strongly suspecting it won't turn out that way. I predict that even if we DO keep 13 pitchers, # 14 will be a value guy.

[Anonymous]

Sure...with good players.

You are advocating poor roster management to keep around dime a dozen arms.

Just isn't logical.

If Wig can play a decent enough SS to serve as the # 2, who do you want as the extra bench guy? I'm guessing Reimold (whom I think is nowhere near ready, just based on what I've read on the boards here).

[Sports Guy]

If Wig can play a decent enough SS to serve as the # 2, who do you want as the extra bench guy? I'm guessing Reimold (whom I think is nowhere near ready, just based on what I've read on the boards here).

Well, let me answer this for you...Wigginton can't play SS.

He isn't that good at third, why should we think he is going to be good enough to play SS?

And that doesn't matter anyway.

Carrying 13 pitchers and having a short bench is just an awful idea, especially if the idea behind it is so that we don't lose, GASP, Brian Bass!

[El Gordo]

Rshack's supposedly really great point was made in the context of him AGREEING with the Moose that they don't give a bleep whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers, which means (to me) that they're either wearing blinders with respect to the 2010 time-frame and beyond, or they're just feeling relaxed on a nice Sunday afternoon!

But I'm glad to see you're picking up on the 13-pitcher scenario. It's not a 2009 issue, which most of the other posters seem obsessed with. It's a long-term planning issue. How do we preserve valuable assets? To me, 13 pitchers is the obvious way to do it.

I think what they are saying is that one or the other is not axiomatic at this point. If there is a surplus of promising arms at the end of ST, it wil make sense to go with 13 pitchers. In the more likely case that several of the out of option guys fizzle out, a 4 man bench is more important. We can't know these things now.

[Anonymous]

I think what they are saying is that one or the other is not axiomatic at this point. If there is a surplus of promising arms at the end of ST, it wil make sense to go with 13 pitchers. In the more likely case that several of the out of option guys fizzle out, a 4 man bench is more important. We can't know these things now.

I would have agreed with the logic here ... but foresee a much greater likelihood that there's a squeeze with the pitching staff come the end of ST. If it turns out not to be the case, then this issue becomes moot, clearly. I just don't expect that.

[RShack]

Rshack's supposedly really great point was made in the context of him AGREEING with the Moose that they don't give a bleep whether we carry 12 or 13 pitchers, which means (to me) that they're either wearing blinders with respect to the 2010 time-frame and beyond, or they're just feeling relaxed on a nice Sunday afternoon!

Just because I don't pretend to know exactly how things will work out, that doesn't mean I don't give a bleep or am wearing blinders.

IMO, wearing blinders means that you think that future events will match whatever you think is gonna happen.

Your premise seems to be that anybody who doesn't agree with the oh-so-firm prognostications of some posters is either blind or doesn't care.

That's a silly conclusion to reach, and it surprises me that you would say that.

[Anonymous]

Well, let me answer this for you...Wigginton can't play SS.

He isn't that good at third, why should we think he is going to be good enough to play SS?

And that doesn't matter anyway.

Carrying 13 pitchers and having a short bench is just an awful idea, especially if the idea behind it is so that we don't lose, GASP, Brian Bass!

Straw-Man Alert!

Much as I like Brian Bass, this concept of preserving valuable pitching assets was obviously based on more than one name.