Hall vs one year deals

[Sports Guy]

I think most fans are expecting the team to completely miss out on their goal of obtaining a #3 or better starter.

So let’s go with the safer idea that they are going to do another 1 year deal with a pitcher who will accept a 1 year deal contract. We know the type of pitcher that is likely to say yes to that.

If the choice was between one of those types of guys or giving DL Hall the ball every 5th day and seeing what he can do, at least for the first 2-3 months of the season, what would you rather see the team do?

Im giving the ball to Hall because the upside is huge and if it doesn’t work out, you can get that one year deal type guy at the deadline to supply you some innings or maybe one of your MiL pitchers has developed and can help out.

[interloper]

I can't really argue against that. You're expecting decent innings from Bradish, Grayson, Means, and Kremer. So we don't necessarily have the same need for an innings eater type of guy right away. 

In a timeline where Elias does not get a SP this off-season, though, I would certainly hope that he gets another quality bullpen arm. Because that's another way of stabilizing things. This team won a lot of close games using their bullpen. Simply calling it an offseason with Kimbrel and nothing else would be absolutely negligent. 

But yeah - Hall is supposedly a big time SP prospect right? Might as well see what he can do if we find ourselves in this scenario. Do I personally believe he's going to be a ML SP? No, not really. But I'd rather try than sign another Gibson-type. I'm expecting Means to kind of have a Gibson-level of production this year. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by interloper

[Spy Fox]

Yeah, I think I'd also prefer Hall to the rotation, sign a RP, over the idea of signing another 1 year SP. 

One thing about rotation health. If we don't make a SP trade this winter, the prospect ammo will still be there for an in-season trade next year if a big hole opens in the rotation due to injury. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

Any 1 year deal SP is likely not going to be much better than Irvin, so I generally think don’t bother and find a 5th starter between Hall, Wells and Irvin (my preference in that order). 

More depth is nice and maybe that gives them more flexibility to rely on Wells/Hall in the bullpen, but they shouldn’t stand in the way of Hall getting plugged into the rotation if he looks like he warrants being a starter in Spring Training. 

[Sports Guy]

Yea, i think if you also enter the idea that we sign a Stephenson type guy, that makes this even more of a no brainer.

[Aristotelian]

We still have Kremer, Irvin, and Wells for two spots at the back end. I would be inclined to roll with Kremer and Irvin but could be convinced to flip them with Hall and Wells. But the fact Hall has had success in the bullpen argues for keeping him there IMO. 

[Frobby]

I’ve been saying for a while that if we can’t get a top 3 guy I’d rather just give opportunities to the pitchers already here.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

We still have Kremer, Irvin, and Wells for two spots at the back end. I would be inclined to roll with Kremer and Irvin but could be convinced to flip them with Hall and Wells. But the fact Hall has had success in the bullpen argues for keeping him there IMO. 

Irvin and Wells have also had success in the pen and the upside for them isn’t close to what Hall has.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Irvin and Wells have also had success in the pen and the upside for them isn’t close to what Hall has.

I’d just let the three battle it out in spring training and see how everyone’s looking.  Hall has to show that he has a prayer of getting through 5 innings on a regular basis   

 

 

[ChosenOne21]

I'm just not a believer in Hall as a SP

[TommyPickles]

I agree with your premise, and I want to see Hall get a shot at the rotation too, but I think they need to bring in at least one more starting pitcher. I just said in a different thread, I'd be cool with someone like Hyun Jin Ryu. He's probably the best pitcher that could be had on a one-year deal.

Ryu finished top 3 in the Cy Young vote in 2019 and 2020. He had a 3.46 ERA last year over 11 starts. I think there's a pretty good chance he would improve the rotation overall. I also think if your rotation to start the year is: 

1. Bradish

2. Grayson

3. Means

4. Ryu

5. Kremer

then there's a pretty good chance someone is getting injured. I'd rather see Hall as the next man up than Irvin. I could even see starting Hall in AAA as Norfolk's ace. Opens up a spot in the bullpen and gives you a sixth starter that's locked and loaded as soon as you need him. If the need never arises, and everyone is healthy and doing great, then they could just bring him up to the pen mid-season for the playoff push. 

 

[btdart20]

I was going to post something along these lines in a few threads at various points over the last few weeks.  I haven't yet because we're still fairly early in the off-season with enough talent still on the FA/trade pool board. 

Anyway, I think Hall is the wildcard/ace in the hole this year as our #3.  Elias really seems committed to the idea of him sticking as an SP.  And is the reason Elias isn't forced to trade top prospect talent for an TOR SP with warts.  Of anyone in the org, he stretches the ceiling and has paid the rookie tax to a decent degree (Povich is the next high ceiling guy IMO, but that's for next year).  Means, Kremer, Wells, and Irvin are fine rotation options, but none of them have the upside that Hall has.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Elias stick with Hall and see what the first half holds.  Then cross bridges with the rotation at the deadline.

At the same time, IF and COF are both deep enough where decisions still need to be made.  The last few weeks has proven Elias isn't going to take a haircut on upside talent for a rental (which is a subjective statement for sure).  I wouldn't be shocked if we deal from the top of the deck just to clear the runway and reallocate talent positions (like RP) or timeline (keep stacking talent).

[interloper]

8 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

I agree with your premise, and I want to see Hall get a shot at the rotation too, but I think they need to bring in at least one more starting pitcher. I just said in a different thread, I'd be cool with someone like Hyun Jin Ryu. He's probably the best pitcher that could be had on a one-year deal.

Ryu finished top 3 in the Cy Young vote in 2019 and 2020. He had a 3.46 ERA last year over 11 starts. I think there's a pretty good chance he would improve the rotation overall. I also think if your rotation to start the year is: 

1. Bradish

2. Grayson

3. Means

4. Ryu

5. Kremer

then there's a pretty good chance someone is getting injured. I'd rather see Hall as the next man up than Irvin. I could even see starting Hall in AAA as Norfolk's ace. Opens up a spot in the bullpen and gives you a sixth starter that's locked and loaded as soon as you need him. If the need never arises, and everyone is healthy and doing great, then they could just bring him up to the pen mid-season for the playoff push. 

 

I like the Ryu idea more if we end up trading someone from our ML rotation like Kremer, for example. Is he coming off TJS? We always seem to rough him up (or Mountcastle does anyway), so I tend to think he's worse than his actual numbers. But he's decent. 

[maybenxtyr]

I wouldn't mind seeing it happen. I'm not as hung up on the 101 wins in 2023 as being an indicator for 2024. I'm not sure that Hall can make it as a starter, but the upside would be huge if he did. There's still a couple of options in-house if he fails.

 

Sign a RP and let Hall, Irvin and Wells have at a spot in the rotation. 

 

I still believe that they need to trade some assets...MiL and ML level in order to round out the best 26. 

[FlaO'sFan]

20 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I'm just not a believer in Hall as a SP

This was going to be my exact reply. 

If they do try to go with hall as a SP, though, I hope I am wrong and will be rooting for him.