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Mewleski: The infield depth seems to be leading to one conclusion – a trade is coming.

Roll Tide

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Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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12 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

You've been arguing that we've all been underestimating Santander's trade value for weeks / months so it was a pretty educated jump. I made my point in my first reply to your post about what I thought I realistic trade would be with the Marlins (i.e., Mounty + a lower level prospect for either Cabrera or Rogers).  I think the only way we'd be able to move Santander for anything of note is if we paired him with a "very good" prospect. Mountcastle would be a much more appealing trade piece for most teams because he's younger, cheaper, and under contract for three years as opposed to one. 

1) Don’t 

2) in one of these threads, I was looking at needs according to their teams writers. 
 

3) Those need to remind you were DH, COF, and SS.

So we could theoretically go a couple ways 

Ortiz, Santader, and Mountcastle

Cowser, Santander/Hays, Mateo/Urias

 

My only point would be there is potential to meet all of the suggested needs. I’m not claiming I’d know what it would take.

 

 

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Greg Pappas
Greg Pappas

It will just happen suddenly.  Why?  Because, no one expects the Elias Acquisition!!

wildcard
wildcard

I am not for trading key O's players.   Fans seem to forget that this team won 101 last year. The pitching that has been lost Gibsons, Flaherty, Bautista, Voth, Fuji, Lopez, Krehbiel, Gillespie a

Roll Tide
Roll Tide

I agree but you have to wonder when Elias is going to pull the trigger.     https://www.masnsports.com/blog/is-a-trade-inevitable-for-the-orioles

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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I am not for trading key O's players.   Fans seem to forget that this team won 101 last year.

The pitching that has been lost Gibsons, Flaherty, Bautista, Voth, Fuji, Lopez, Krehbiel, Gillespie and Givens.  The only one of those that is hard to replace in Bautista.

O's pitching added is a full season of Means, GRod, and Hall plus Kimbrel, Heasley and McDermott.

A full season of Bradish, GRod, Means, Kremer, Wells, Irvin,  and MCDermott should be better starters than what the O's  had when they won 101 last year.

Adding Kimbrel, Tate  and Hall should reenforce the pen.

I am not against adding more pitching but the pitching is better that what they had last year already.

Position players lost are Frazier, Hicks and Bemboom.

Added are full seasons of Westburg, Ortiz, Cowser,  Kjerstad and Hilliard.  And probably partial seasons of Holliday and Mayo.

Overall the 2024 O's are much better than the 2023 Orioles that won 101 games.

Trading key players is probably not the best thing for a team as strong as the current O's.   Trading for a 4th or 5th starter that does not cost a key O's players or signing one  by FA is a smarter way to keep a winning team together.

In the 2022-23 off season Elias said he was going to add better pitching.  He added Gibson and Irvin. Pick up Coulombe on waivers.  Just because Elias wants to make a trade for a TOR starter does not mean he will do it.

I think Elias will make trades for Urias, Stowers and maybe Norby and O'Hearn for prospects sometime during the off season or during the season.  Those  are the type of trades I believe will happen to strengthen the farm system.

 

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Who?  Who forgets?  No one would forget even if you didn't remind us constantly.

This was not a 101 true talent club.  Even if it was you should be striving to improve.

 

Of course they will improve from all the talent coming for the minors.   They are not standing still.

The talent on the 2023 O's team earned every win.   We should not try to diminish their success.  

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Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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49 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Of course they will improve from all the talent coming for the minors.   They are not standing still.

The talent on the 2023 O's team earned every win.   We should not try to diminish their success.  

They have to make room for the prospects they aren’t trading. That could include Ortiz, Cowser, Norby, Stowers. That’s not counting lesser guys .

You do that by trading off guys nearing free agency. 

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forphase1

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25 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

They have to make room for the prospects they aren’t trading. That could include Ortiz, Cowser, Norby, Stowers. That’s not counting lesser guys .

You do that by trading off guys nearing free agency. 

And guys who just aren't that good,  like Mateo.  

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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46 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

They have to make room for the prospects they aren’t trading. That could include Ortiz, Cowser, Norby, Stowers. That’s not counting lesser guys .

You do that by trading off guys nearing free agency. 

Sounds like you are betting on Holliday and Mayo beginning the season with the O's.    I don't think either has proven what they need to at AAA.

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Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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7 hours ago, wildcard said:

Sounds like you are betting on Holliday and Mayo beginning the season with the O's.    I don't think either has proven what they need to at AAA.

Well it depends who they trade. I have little faith that Mateo and Urias both get cleared off. And Ortiz gets traded. Right now you have O’Hearn, Mountcastle, Westburg, Gunner, Urias, and Mateo. And Ortiz plus Norby. 

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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10 hours ago, wildcard said:

Of course they will improve from all the talent coming for the minors.   They are not standing still.

The talent on the 2023 O's team earned every win.   We should not try to diminish their success.  

🤦‍♂️

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TommyPickles Major Leaguer

TommyPickles

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12 hours ago, wildcard said:

 

I am not against adding more pitching but the pitching is better that what they had last year already.

 

 

Ehh... I hope you're right, but it's not hard to imagine the O's pitching being worse if they make no additions.

We've lost Felix, who was incredible. Hard to imagine the back end of the bullpen candidates replacing those numbers.

I love Bradish and Grayson, but each could regress a bit. Baseball Reference projects Bradish to go from a 2.83 ERA in 2023 to a 3.75 ERA in 2024. They project Grayson to have a 4.31 ERA in 2024.

Means is my favorite player on the team, but a healthy season is not guaranteed.

 

I think we need to add more pitching.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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30 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Ehh... I hope you're right, but it's not hard to imagine the O's pitching being worse if they make no additions.

We've lost Felix, who was incredible. Hard to imagine the back end of the bullpen candidates replacing those numbers.

I love Bradish and Grayson, but each could regress a bit. Baseball Reference projects Bradish to go from a 2.83 ERA in 2023 to a 3.75 ERA in 2024. They project Grayson to have a 4.31 ERA in 2024.

Means is my favorite player on the team, but a healthy season is not guaranteed.

 

I think we need to add more pitching.

Felix is right now being replaced by Kimbrel, Hall and Tate.   Maybe not as good as Felix but then again no one will be.  Its a good alternative.

The O's are a development team and we saw the development come together in the 2nd half.   Bradish 2.34 ERA,  GRod  2.58 ERA, Kremer 3.25 ERA.

Means has a 3.74 career ERA. In his last healthy year (2021) be had a 3.60 ERA in 146 IP.   When he came back in 2023 he had a 2.66 ERA.   I think his career ERA is a good guess in about 150 IP.  The defense and relief pitching is much better  now than in 2021.

Wells has shown over the last two years he can pitch to a 3.30 ERA for 15 starts.    Then there is Irvin and McDermott who should see some starts in 2024.

Do the O's need more starting pitching?  Its always  good to have more quality pitching.  But what  Elias is weighing is at what cost in prospects and dollars.    

The O's are probably in the best pitching shape they have been in, in many years.  The starters are better going into 2024 then they were in 2023 with the addition of Means,  a full year of GRod and the addition of McDermott sometime during the season.  While Bradish and Kremer are probably at their peak performance.

 

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ChosenOne21 Major Leaguer

ChosenOne21

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13 hours ago, wildcard said:

Of course they will improve from all the talent coming for the minors.   They are not standing still.

The talent on the 2023 O's team earned every win.   We should not try to diminish their success.  

And no one ever gets hurt, regresses, gets less lucky or doesn't immediately live up to expectations.

If you're setting the O/U for Orioles wins next year at 101.5, I'm slamming my money down on the under. They're going to be great, but it's really hard to win more than 100 games and we got lucky more than we got unlucky by a lot.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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16 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

And no one ever gets hurt, regresses, gets less lucky or doesn't immediately live up to expectations.

If you're setting the O/U for Orioles wins next year at 101.5, I'm slamming my money down on the under. They're going to be great, but it's really hard to win more than 100 games and we got lucky more than we got unlucky by a lot.

As I have repeatedly said.  I am not against adding more pitching.

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