Assuming he starts the year at AAA, how would you utilize Coby Mayo?

[Fiver6565]

I say play Coby at third. If it’s in the Majors right away make Westburg the Zobrist, Mateo becomes backup SS/CF, and Urias moves. Ramon has been a good soldier for a few years here but the writing is on the wall. 

Moving Mayo to RF solves next to nothing given the logjam we also have in the OF. Moving him to 1B basically means replacing RMC. I’d rather replace Urias. 

[Fiver6565]

Meant to add to my post - the hope is that Mayo becomes our Austin Riley. Plenty of ‘big’ guys have played third. He’s 22. Moving him down the positional spectrum already would be a mistake I don’t think this management team makes. 

[Billy F-Face3]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

As for SS vs 3B, you need more arm for SS than 3B because the throws are generally longer and from much different angles.

If you're  referring to angles by turning a double play when a runner is sliding into your knees, then I'll give you that. But I totally disagree otherwise. In my experience of playing baseball, I've played 2B, SS, and 3B. When I played 3B, it was the most difficult position to make throws from.  (I honestly don’t know why my coach wanted me to play there. It wasn't my natural position. ) The overwhelming majority of throws go to 1B. 3B is the farthest away from 1B and by far the most demanding throw on a player's arm. Even when throwing to 2B you're farther away than the SS.

Plus there's the issue of making sure your pitcher is out of the way of the throw to 1B on certain angles. Never want to bean your own pitcher. That would be bad.

[waroriole]

10 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

If you're  referring to angles by turning a double play when a runner is sliding into your knees, then I'll give you that. But I totally disagree otherwise. In my experience of playing baseball, I've played 2B, SS, and 3B. When I played 3B, it was the most difficult position to make throws from.  (I honestly don’t know why my coach wanted me to play there. It wasn't my natural position. ) The overwhelming majority of throws go to 1B. 3B is the farthest away from 1B and by far the most demanding throw on a player's arm. Even when throwing to 2B you're farther away than the SS.

Plus there's the issue of making sure your pitcher is out of the way of the throw to 1B on certain angles. Never want to bean your own pitcher. That would be bad.

Are you sure you played those positions? Throws from 3B are often shallow, which is why it’s the hot corner. Throws from SS are often deep in the hole, making it the longer throw. 

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

If you're  referring to angles by turning a double play when a runner is sliding into your knees, then I'll give you that. But I totally disagree otherwise. In my experience of playing baseball, I've played 2B, SS, and 3B. When I played 3B, it was the most difficult position to make throws from.  (I honestly don’t know why my coach wanted me to play there. It wasn't my natural position. ) The overwhelming majority of throws go to 1B. 3B is the farthest away from 1B and by far the most demanding throw on a player's arm. Even when throwing to 2B you're farther away than the SS.

Plus there's the issue of making sure your pitcher is out of the way of the throw to 1B on certain angles. Never want to bean your own pitcher. That would be bad.

It's a well known fact in the scouting industry that SS needs the best arm because of the amount of area they have to cover, the angle of throws, the ability to throw while on the run, etc. A major league shortstop typically positions himself deep, right at the edge of the outfield grass and with positioning now, can be all over the place but typically very deep.

Now the 3B throw down the line can be one of the longest throws and you want your third baseman to have a good arm too. But thidbase is more about reaction time and hands. Sure, there's going to be they play to his backhand that's going to require a good arm and coming in on bunts and throwing on the run certainly is helped by a good arm.

But let's get back to Westburg. Arm strength is one of the things why you don't want him at SS. He doesn't throw well moving away from first base, he doesn't have very good lateral movement, and he's a big guy that going to get heavier and slower. 

Now can he play there here and there and probably not kill ya, I think so. I've seen him enough at SS to think if he has to play a few games there or fill in he'd be ok. But he would not be a guy you want there every game because his OAA there would be very poor.

[DrungoHazewood]

44 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Are you sure you played those positions? Throws from 3B are often shallow, which is why it’s the hot corner. Throws from SS are often deep in the hole, making it the longer throw. 

Just measure it. Go to Google maps, find a baseball park, and measure from normal third positioning and the normal short. Third to first is something like 135 feet, short is something like 125 feet. The outfield grass at deepest short is something like 145', while the third base line/grass mark is about 155'.

Sure, you can find places a third baseman needs to cover that are closer than some places a shortstop needs to cover. But I think it's clear an average throw from third is longer than an average throw from short. 

Edited March 6 by DrungoHazewood

[btdart20]

48 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Just measure it. Go to Google maps, find a baseball park, and measure from normal third positioning and the normal short. Third to first is something like 135 feet, short is something like 125 feet. The outfield grass at deepest short is something like 145', while the third base line/grass mark is about 155'.

Sure, you can find places a third baseman needs to cover that are closer than some places a shortstop needs to cover. But I think it's clear an average throw from third is longer than an average throw from short. 

Three additional factors:

1. Now have your SS sprinting away from 1B while fielding a grounder in the hole vs. a quick dive away.  Arm strength has to overcome the momentum away from 1B for the SS.  3B has less plays where they are on the run away from 1B (without the time to plant).

2. The distance from home to 3B is shorter.  Giving the 3B less time before fielding (the reaction Tony spoke of) but more time after fielding.  SS is the opposite. 

3.  SS has the longer relay throw to the plate. 

[MCO'sFan]

14 hours ago, Fiver6565 said:

I say play Coby at third. If it’s in the Majors right away make Westburg the Zobrist, Mateo becomes backup SS/CF, and Urias moves. Ramon has been a good soldier for a few years here but the writing is on the wall. 

Moving Mayo to RF solves next to nothing given the logjam we also have in the OF. Moving him to 1B basically means replacing RMC. I’d rather replace Urias. 

This is my thinking as well. Play him at third until you're convinced he can't do it. I would play Westburg at every position other than catcher for the remainder of ST to see if he can turn into a Ben Zobrist type player and get 400 - 450 Abs that way. Urias has to go in my opinion. Mayo may eventually become RMs replacement but I hope he sticks at 3B. 

[MCO'sFan]

12 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

If you're  referring to angles by turning a double play when a runner is sliding into your knees, then I'll give you that. But I totally disagree otherwise. In my experience of playing baseball, I've played 2B, SS, and 3B. When I played 3B, it was the most difficult position to make throws from.  (I honestly don’t know why my coach wanted me to play there. It wasn't my natural position. ) The overwhelming majority of throws go to 1B. 3B is the farthest away from 1B and by far the most demanding throw on a player's arm. Even when throwing to 2B you're farther away than the SS.

Plus there's the issue of making sure your pitcher is out of the way of the throw to 1B on certain angles. Never want to bean your own pitcher. That would be bad.

Not trying to pile on but, I had to comment on this. It is 100% on the pitcher to get out of the way. I have never heard of a 3B looking for the pitcher before he makes a throw. At least not past the LL level or maybe a bad JV HS team.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, btdart20 said:

Three additional factors:

1. Now have your SS sprinting away from 1B while fielding a grounder in the hole vs. a quick dive away.  Arm strength has to overcome the momentum away from 1B for the SS.  3B has less plays where they are on the run away from 1B (without the time to plant).

2. The distance from home to 3B is shorter.  Giving the 3B less time before fielding (the reaction Tony spoke of) but more time after fielding.  SS is the opposite. 

3.  SS has the longer relay throw to the plate. 

Right on the mark, thanks for the additional reasons. The relay throws are definitely a place where the shortstop is making much longer and deeper throw then a 3B ever would make. 

In the end though, both positions require good arm strength and a look at MLB avg throws from 3B and SS show them to be almost equal with 3B averaging 86.2 MPH and Shortstops averaging 86.3 MPH on throws.

So it seems major league teams think the required arm strength is about equal for both positions, but the amount of different angles, the amount of distance, the double play, and relay throws are why it takes the better arm and athlete to play SS.

[emmett16]

If they think Mayo has the goods to be an avg. MLB 3B (and I think they do), then stick him there and work on him until he's ready to push Gunnar to SS long term & Westburg to super sub.  I wouldn't mess with his development by throwing a bunch of positions at him.  I'd have him focus on where he will be playing long term and where he best fits in with the optimal Baltimore line-up, and that is 3B. 

[Number5]

Infield positioning, generally:  Strong arm, great range --  SS.  Strong arm, limited range --  3B,  Limited arm, great range --  2B.  Limited arm, limited range --  1B.

[Aristotelian]

I'd still have him at 3B since most 3B skills translate to 1B. Would be good to get him some 1B and RF experience too. Still some uncertainty depending on whether Basallo is primary 1B or C, and there are always injuries, slumps, etc.

2025 depth chart looks something like:

1B: Mountcastle, Mayo, Basallo (Kjerstad? Stowers?)

2B: Holliday, Westburg, Norby

SS: Gunnar, Holliday

3B: Mayo, Westburg, Horvath

RF: Kjerstad, Stowers, Mayo

[TommyPickles]

I'm not a great believer in Mountcastle (or O'Hearn) and I'd love to see Mayo become our full time 1B by 2025. 

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Right on the mark, thanks for the additional reasons. The relay throws are definitely a place where the shortstop is making much longer and deeper throw then a 3B ever would make. 

In the end though, both positions require good arm strength and a look at MLB avg throws from 3B and SS show them to be almost equal with 3B averaging 86.2 MPH and Shortstops averaging 86.3 MPH on throws.

So it seems major league teams think the required arm strength is about equal for both positions, but the amount of different angles, the amount of distance, the double play, and relay throws are why it takes the better arm and athlete to play SS.

Agreed.  The biggest difference is range/agility more than arm.