Jackson Holliday 2024

[Tony-OH]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:51 PM, oriole said:

Just saying, looking back at trades can be frustrating is all.

You have to give up something of quality to get quality. Absolutely Ortiz would be a plus defender at 2B and would be doing well "IF" the Orioles would have given him that chance. I think the Orioles had every intention of Holliday playing 2B for them most of the year and didn't see an everyday spot for Ortiz.

Burnes has been everything the Orioles could have hoped for and they are going for a World Series this year. That trade was certainly worth it at the time and if the Orioles do win a World Series and Burnes is a big part of that, no one is going to care how the players traded do.

I've been a big Ortiz guy over the last few years and wanted him to be the everyday 2B last year over Frazier. He's doing about what I expected offensively and even though he's playing out of position at 3B right now, when he moves back to SS they are going to have an outstanding major league SS to replace Adames. 

I hope Joey goes on to have an outstanding career, but the Orioles already have a pretty good SS, and 2B will be manned by either Westburg or Holliday for years to come.

This was a good depth trade by Elias and even if it doesn't end up in a WS win this year, it was the exact kind of trades he needs to be willing to make to give his team a better chance at winning each year.

[Sports Guy]

42 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

You have to give up something of quality to get quality. Absolutely Ortiz would be a plus defender at 2B and would be doing well "IF" the Orioles would have given him that chance. I think the Orioles had every intention of Holliday playing 2B for them most of the year and didn't see an everyday spot for Ortiz.

Burnes has been everything the Orioles could have hoped for and they are going for a World Series this year. That trade was certainly worth it at the time and if the Orioles do win a World Series and Burnes is a big part of that, no one is going to care how the players traded do.

I've been a big Ortiz guy over the last few years and wanted him to be the everyday 2B last year over Frazier. He's doing about what I expected offensively and even though he's playing out of position at 3B right now, when he moves back to SS they are going to have an outstanding major league SS to replace Adames. 

I hope Joey goes on to have an outstanding career, but the Orioles already have a pretty good SS, and 2B will be manned by either Westburg or Holliday for years to come.

This was a good depth trade by Elias and even if it doesn't end up in a WS win this year, it was the exact kind of trades he needs to be willing to make to give his team a better chance at winning each year.

What was the alternative?  
 

Block the best prospect in the sport? Keep Ortiz in the minors?  Trade Westburg instead? Move plus defenders at premium positions into the OF and then block the OFers we have?

None of this is good outside of trading Westburg instead of Ortiz if the right deal was there.

You had to make a trade and there is more to do as well. The whole “depth is a good thing” is a false narrative if that depth is wasting away and you don’t use it to address real needs. You just can’t do that.

[CaptainRedbeard]

1 hour ago, Orioles Jim said:

No doubt hearing the chorus of suggestions from O’s fan on the internet everywhere, Holliday indeed appears to have tweaked his stance:

That would indeed explain his immediate struggles after getting sent down (as opposed to just pouting) and why he’s better than ever now.

This makes sense - Holliday was very upright before, he’s in a more athletic position now. Should hopefully help with timing the leg kick. 

Holliday was getting overwhelmed by MLB fastballs but he also got killed by the MLB strike zone. He completely got out of his approach that made him successful in the minor leagues because he started chasing out of the zone a lot, which only exacerbated the contact issues. Very good to see he’s back to dominant K/BB rates in AAA, hopefully he’ll have a smoother transition the next go round. 

The big question with Holliday is just when they call him up again - if they want to get past the Super 2 deadline, I believe that will be sometime in July. I expect that is the target right now but injuries and/or Mateo/Urias’ play could accelerate that timeline. They’ve been riding the hot hand with Mateo but can’t expect that to last indefinitely.

[interloper]

1 hour ago, Orioles Jim said:

No doubt hearing the chorus of suggestions from O’s fan on the internet everywhere, Holliday indeed appears to have tweaked his stance:

That would indeed explain his immediate struggles after getting sent down (as opposed to just pouting) and why he’s better than ever now.

Finally, someone bothered to actually sniff around and find something out. Kudos to this reporter. So the leg kick remains but the setup is a little different. At least we know some change has been made. 

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, interloper said:

Finally, someone bothered to actually sniff around and find something out. Kudos to this reporter. So the leg kick remains but the setup is a little different. At least we know some change has been made. 

Well since the leg kick remains, he’s going to be a failure…obviously.

[sportsfan8703]

45 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What was the alternative?  
 

Block the best prospect in the sport? Keep Ortiz in the minors?  Trade Westburg instead? Move plus defenders at premium positions into the OF and then block the OFers we have?

None of this is good outside of trading Westburg instead of Ortiz if the right deal was there.

You had to make a trade and there is more to do as well. The whole “depth is a good thing” is a false narrative if that depth is wasting away and you don’t use it to address real needs. You just can’t do that.

Agreed.  Also how much did we lose defensively going from Ortiz at 2B to Mateo/Westburg for this season?  

On a side note, I think Holliday should be converted to CF ala Trea Turner.  Mayo is the 3B of the future.  Holliday in CF.  Basallo in the back up C/1B/DH mix.  

[Sports Guy]

 

[baltfan]

On 5/15/2024 at 9:57 AM, Sports Guy said:

Well since the leg kick remains, he’s going to be a failure…obviously.

Meh, the article mentions that it doesn’t work in the majors usually but they think he can be an exception with this tweak.  Guess what goes next if the tweak doesn’t work..

[baltfan]

On 5/15/2024 at 10:04 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

Agreed.  Also how much did we lose defensively going from Ortiz at 2B to Mateo/Westburg for this season?  

On a side note, I think Holliday should be converted to CF ala Trea Turner.  Mayo is the 3B of the future.  Holliday in CF.  Basallo in the back up C/1B/DH mix.  

I don’t think the pay have lost anything.  Westburg  is 2 OAA and Ortiz is 0.  Mateo is 0 as well but I would be willing to bet with reps at second that changes. 

[sportsfan8703]

9 hours ago, baltfan said:

I don’t think the pay have lost anything.  Westburg  is 2 OAA and Ortiz is 0.  Mateo is 0 as well but I would be willing to bet with reps at second that changes. 

That’s my point. Mateo has great range at 2nd base. With all the bat talk, have we really discussed how good Mateo has been at 2B?  We haven’t really seen him play there in his Oriole career. 

What is Mateo’s range like compared to other MLB 2B purely at 2B?  Can that be looked up? Rep to anyone that knows. 

[Sports Guy]

12 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 

BTW, that’s Elias in the stands to the right. You can see him look up as Holliday makes contact.

[Frobby]

36 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

BTW, that’s Elias in the stands to the right. You can see him look up as Holliday makes contact.

You’ve got to think that the minor leaguers are well aware of it when the boss is there to watch them play, right?   

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You’ve got to think that the minor leaguers are well aware of it when the boss is there to watch them play, right?   

I’m sure he spoke with them before the game started.

[Roy Firestone]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m sure he spoke with them before the game started.

I know for a fact he did.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

I know for a fact he did.

That kind of info is why we pay you the big bucks!  (Not.)