Go get Kopech..and other potential BP additions

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Oh they banned me.  They didn’t like me telling them I told you so after all the sh!t they gave me.

[Aristotelian]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Fuji isn’t a good comp.  He doesn’t have a ML history that suggests he could be really good and Kopech does.

I agree Kopech is in a class above Fuji. Fuji is a more extreme example of a guy with a high walk rate and lack of command that offsets electric stuff.  But he's got enough Fuji in him to be concerning. He led the AL in walks in only 129 innings. If you add it all up he is at 5 WAR in 3+ years: good, but not elite. I'm not sure who to target yet but if we were going to target a bullpen and squeeze out a guy like Baumann I would want more of a sure thing than Kopech.  

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

I agree Kopech is in a class above Fuji. Fuji is a more extreme example of a guy with a high walk rate and lack of command that offsets electric stuff.  But he's got enough Fuji in him to be concerning. He led the AL in walks in only 129 innings. If you add it all up he is at 5 WAR in 3+ years: good, but not elite. I'm not sure who to target yet but if we were going to target a bullpen and squeeze out a guy like Baumann I would want more of a sure thing than Kopech.  

There’s no doubt Kopech is risky.  I’m not saying he’s a slam dunk guy.

In just saying he has had prior success and has elite stuff that if it could be harnessed, could turn him into an elite guy.

That said, I’m not sure how much risk there is. The financial commitment isn’t high and you aren’t trading a ton for him.

I would like more of a sure thing but that will also cost a lot more. There is a lot of balancing that has to be done here.

[Moose Milligan]

For the record, I'd like to get Kopech, too.  Would be interested in seeing how the Orioles can do something with him.

[Just Regular]

Fujinami was a miss, but I consider Felix Bautista to be Orioles PD's masterpiece with this kind of arm.

I think Burnes, Grayson, Bradish and Cano are the only arms Sigbot really wants to take into a tournament.    

Danny Coulombe could end up having 10 key battles with Juan Soto this season, but I don't think even Coulombe gives Elias strong confidence like more dominant pitchers would.

I hope for Kopech and Helsley for this roster and accept that some of the other 29 Clubs will get arms Elias is currently dancing to preserve. 

[Malike]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

There’s no doubt Kopech is risky.  I’m not saying he’s a slam dunk guy.

In just saying he has had prior success and has elite stuff that if it could be harnessed, could turn him into an elite guy.

That said, I’m not sure how much risk there is. The financial commitment isn’t high and you aren’t trading a ton for him.

I would like more of a sure thing but that will also cost a lot more. There is a lot of balancing that has to be done here.

I think Getz would probably have unreasonable expectations in a trade for him.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Malike said:

I think Getz would probably have unreasonable expectations in a trade for him.

That’s possible especially since you wonder who will be out there.

If I were Getz, at this point, I probably hold onto him a little while and see if his raw numbers get better but that’s a risk too. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

For the record, I'd like to get Kopech, too.  Would be interested in seeing how the Orioles can do something with him.

I like this move too Kopech could be a weapon out of the bullpen and the cost to get him in prospects shouldn't be outrageous. I'm sure there's already a thread on the White Sox board proposing Samuel Basallo and Cade Povich for Kopech.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I like this move too Kopech could be a weapon out of the bullpen and the cost to get him in prospects shouldn't be outrageous. I'm sure there's already a thread on the White Sox board proposing Samuel Basallo and Cade Povich for Kopech.

I told them on that board that Kopech should go to the relief role and they told me no, that the WS thought they could make him a starter and that his upside was too high as a starter.

I was trying to get him included in a Cease deal and they wanted a decent amount for him although not top top guy level.

Im sure they think McDermott and/or Beavers is fair and that Stowers or Norby are too old.  

[interloper]

10 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Fujinami was a miss, but I consider Felix Bautista to be Orioles PD's masterpiece with this kind of arm.

I think Burnes, Grayson, Bradish and Cano are the only arms Sigbot really wants to take into a tournament.    

Danny Coulombe could end up having 10 key battles with Juan Soto this season, but I don't think even Coulombe gives Elias strong confidence like more dominant pitchers would.

I hope for Kopech and Helsley for this roster and accept that some of the other 29 Clubs will get arms Elias is currently dancing to preserve. 

Firm disagree on Coulombe. IMO Coulombe is necessary if you want to get Ohtani out late in a WS game. He has a record against him similar to Matusz and Ortiz. It's pretty wild. 

[Say O!]

1 hour ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

I prefer Ryan Helsey but don’t know if cardinals are sellers yet.

Agree in preference for Helsley.  Would cost more tho but much better and cleaner back end option. Kopech strikes me as bit of high strung head case (which may be perfect for BP but we got like one month of data as reliever on him).

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Kopech’s numbers are kind of all over the place.

 

Kopech’s K rate is off the charts. He’s missing bats at a high level.

However, he is also letting up hard contract and isn’t throwing enough strikes.

His FIP is almost 5 but his xERA is 3.5 and his xFIP is 3.73.  
 

He’s dominating lefties early (important for our park) but righties are lighting him up.  Maybe the HR rate vs righties improves at OPACY as well.

He is making 3M this year and he has another year of club control.

He has great stuff but is playing with a terrible team and poor development organization. 
 

He was a target of mine this offseason and, despite mixed results, is a guy to target now imo. He is going to be(and maybe is right now) made available. The WS have clearly scouted us and maybe they talked Kopech when the 2 teams talked Cease.

I would like to see Kopech get with our staff. They have shown they know how to develop pitchers and Kopech has some of the best stuff in the sport.  He is a guy I would like to get sooner than later to give him as much time as possible to work with our coaches and system.

He’s an ideal target. What do you trade for him? I could see Norby or Stowers making sense. You generally aren’t trading a top guy for him..he doesn’t warrant that but there is no doubt some kind of offer could be there.

 

 

 

I’m a little unclear about the two boxes. His pitching value seems to be awful, in terms of specific pitches, but his pitching ability seems to be fine. His Fastball value is bad, but his velocity is good. Does this mean he’s better than his stuff would indicate? Or worse? 
im sure these stats are fielding-independent, correct? So a terrible defense behind him wouldn’t affect them?

re: the overall question. I’m in favor of getting anyone who is better than Baumann, because presumably they’d also be better than the guys on the farm. ATM, long term control would be one of the most important factors in getting someone for this season’s Big Team.

[Jim'sKid26]

Awesome idea @Sports Guy

For those of you who don't know this guy, here's his scouting report from 2020 when he was the WS #3 prospect:

Scouting grades: Fastball: 80 | Curveball: 50 | Slider: 65 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 45 | Overall: 60

The 33rd overall pick in the 2014 Draft, Kopech signed with the Red Sox for $1.5 million and began blossoming into one of the game's best pitching prospects before Boston made him and Yoan Moncada the centerpieces of a four-prospect trade that landed Chris Sale at the 2016 Winter Meetings. He finished among the Minor League strikeout leaders in each of the next two seasons before joining the White Sox in August 2018, but blew out his elbow in his fourth big league start and had Tommy John surgery that cost him all of 2019. He informed the White Sox he would not participate in the 2020 season, so he'll return to the mound next year.

Before his elbow reconstruction, Kopech earned comparisons to Noah Syndergaard because of his electric stuff. He worked at 95-99 mph with late run on his fastball, regularly pushed his heater into triple digits and legendarily hit 105 mph during a 2016 start. He also blew hitters away with an 85-89 mph slider with two-plane break.

 

This guy has an electric FB. If he can get things sorted out mechanically, he's an elite power arm out of the back end of the BP. 

[Aristotelian]

I would be all over Helsley. Perfect target.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

I would be all over Helsley. Perfect target.

That'd be great if they end up selling. Under control next year, too. And we have recent trade history with St. Louis, which can be a factor sometimes. Unlike Chicago where there could be some frustration between Elias/Getz.