Loewen unimpressive again

[Frobby]

I could go back and find out 11 or 12 K games from John Stephens too. I'll take command and movement over velocity but it seems as though we have continuously gotten conflicting reports about Loewen's velocity. Would your opinion of him change if you learned that he consistently threw 89-90 instead of 93-94? If you are going strictly by numbers then you must consider J.J. Johnson better than Loewen. Right?

I won't take the bait.....I have no idea who will be the best among Hayden Penn, Adam Loewen, James Johnson, Garrett Olson and Radhames Liz. If I had a AA game to win tomorrow, and my choices were J.J. Johnson and Adam Loewen, I would pick Johnson. At the end of this year, who is the better bet to be ready for the major leagues? Not clear cut, but I'd bet on Loewen if you put a gun to my head. Who is more likely to be a dominant starter in the majors in 2009? Much more likely to be Loewen. But I'm not going to pretend that I really know, having never seen either of them pitch.

[McLovin]

How did the labrum injury hold him back? It happend at the end of 2003 and he was ready to go for the 2004 season. He's on schedule to be on the team in 2007. That doesn't mean he's on the original schedule projected for him.

It happened late 2004 and was still a question mark going into last year. He's only a year or so removed from the throwing program. I don't think it's held him back much though.

With regard to his mechanics, I can't imagine us not taking a look at him in the majors this year, so hopefully he'll spend some time with Leo and it will all be a moot point.

[Sports Guy]

How did the labrum injury hold him back? It happend at the end of 2003 and he was ready to go for the 2004 season. He's on schedule to be on the team in 2007. That doesn't mean he's on the original schedule projected for him.

My bad...I was thinking he missed some time due to it.

Oh well, he is likely still where he should be. Maybe he should be in Ottawa but i think he will be there by July anyway, so it really does not matter.

The idea is he is supposed to be ready to contribute in the ML by 2007 and he will.

[Gaz]

I worked out with Adams best friend this fall and early spring. He is a catcher in the White Sox organization and played on our team with Adam and also went to Chipola with Adam. He says that in college, his mechanics were the same as they were in high school. I'm not sure who changed him but for the past couple years he's been with McGregor and they seem to be content with the way he's throwing now (mechanically). Hey, I'm not acting like I know for a fact that he would be better off throwing with his old mechanics, all I'm saying is, he threw harder and more strikes in high school and college the old way. His early struggles could of been from the so called "labrum tear" and nerves and then loss of confidence. Now he has some confidence back, and is throwing more strikes. Maybe it's just taken him a while to get used to the new mechanics and now that he has them figured out (control wise, so it seems), his velocity will increase to what it used to be. Who knows, I'm still confused about the throwing across the body thing.

[McLovin]

Counterpoint. Loewen may have been the most dominant pitcher in the AFL but he wasn't what I would call dominant. Also, most clubs don't send top pitching prospects to the AFL so there weren't too many there. Also, I believe his AFL season consisted of about 20 IP.

Yes, they also send their best hitting prospects there too. Everyone would agree that it's a hitter's league. The fact that he did well says a ton.

Yes, he did shutout the U.S. team for 3.1 IP. I believe almost every pitcher, excluding the South African team, shut them down also. The U.S. team obviously was not on their game and although the bottom line was good, his pitching line of 3 H & 3 BB with no K's wasn't real pretty.

I don't think he could have done much better. And there were a few nice comments from the hitters (Jeter in particular) that said more about his effort than the numbers.

I'm just saying that there are too many red flags to just assume that Loewen is going to become a dominant pitcher.

Red flags? I think the positives definitely outweigh the negatives. If it weren't for the scrutiny of being a #1 pick who held out, everyone would be more than thrilled with what Loewen has done.

[McLovin]

I'm still confused about the throwing across the body thing.

What did you think of his motion in the WBC? Was it over the top, or across the body?

[Gaz]

What did you think of his motion in the WBC? Was it over the top, or across the body?

I thought it was odd. Not much of a leg kick, hunched over at the shoulders, and throwing WAY across his body. Adam is 6'6 and was pitching like he was 5'8. He needs to use his size to his advantage.

[McLovin]

Yes. Red flags. Talk about flawed mechanics and lost velocity. From fans, this website, radar readings, and Leo Mazzone himself. If Loewen had been a 7th round pick we'd be thrilled with the promise he's shown. You know what? He wasn't a 7th round pick. He was the #4 pick overall with high expectations, a ML contract, and he came with descriptions by scouts of being a polished pitcher with great stuff. His first season in Delmarva was not that of a polished pitcher and now there is some question regarding the great stuff. I didn't notice you trying to tackle any of those points.

You're right. I should ignore the steady progression through the minors, the fact that he's healthy, the dominant efforts, and decent numbers. Fact is he's been the most successful first round pitcher we've had since Mussina, and I'm pretty stoked about that. That fact that we're even talking about him this much (after Chris Smith, Beau Hale, Scott Rice, Jash Cenate, Mike Paradis, Wade Townsend, Alvie Shephard, and Jay Powell) is reason enough for my optimism.

[McLovin]

I thought it was odd. Not much of a leg kick, hunched over at the shoulders, and throwing WAY across his body. Adam is 6'6 and was pitching like he was 5'8. He needs to use his size to his advantage.

Again, hopefully he'll get to work some with Leo this year, and this will get taken care of.

[Gaz]

Gaz, your opinion carries a lot of weight. Not just because you coached Adam. But because the Orioles ML pitching coach obviously agrees with you. His comments in ST are in total agreement with what you are saying. I'm paraphrasing but he said Loewen should throw more over the top and downward and more like a power pitcher. What he saw was a guy with a great arm pitching like a finesse pitcher. A lot like someone who used to pitch for the O's and is now a PC in their system. Maybe it's a coincicence and maybe it's not.

Wow, maybe I am that good. Just kidding. I just am going by what I have been taught and what I've taught myself by watching other pitchers. To me, it's quite obvious as to why his velocity has dropped and he's had control problems. His curveball, which scouts used to tell us was an above average Major League pitch in high school, has even changed from a hard 12-6 type curve (maybe an 11:25 am to be more exact, lol) to more of a slurve like pitch.

[Sports Guy]

Who cares if Japan shut down the US?

I know i don't.

I care that Loewen went through a lineup full of AS and held his own.

THAT is what matters.

[Sports Guy]

Why don't you care? Isn't everything relative? If Radhames Liz strikes out 13 in 5 IP, doesn't it mean more if no other pitcher has done it. If 5 other pitchers have done it the same week, it carries less significance. Same thing for the WBC. It was a good effort. I could have been worse. At the same time, the U.S. team didn't really hit at all, save for one game, during the tournament so I think it does mean something. If you just want to focus on everything positive and ignore everything else that is your perogative.

I am not ignoring the negative. But i am not turning positives into negatives like you are.

[McLovin]

Let me ask some of you guys who don't like to hear anything negative in regards to Loewen. Does it matter at all to any of you that his own HS pitching coach has noticed a significant change in his mechanics and velocity. His opinion is backed up by radar readings we've seen on TV and reports we've gotten from fans at games. His opinion is further backed up by comments made by Leo Mazzone this spring regarding Loewen. Does any of that matter to you at all or do you just wish to ignore it and not care?

No, it doesn't matter. Results matter, and I'm happy with what I've seen the past 10 months. If there are mechanical issues, someone smarter than us will fix them.

[McLovin]

Is this is a joke? We should be happy and just shut up because he's turned out better than that group?

Nope, it wasn't a joke. I am happy that Loewen in not a bust, unlike every other first round pitcher since Mussina. I am thrilled as a matter of fact.

Edit: putting the bait back.

[Sports Guy]

Let me ask some of you guys who don't like to hear anything negative in regards to Loewen. Does it matter at all to any of you that his own HS pitching coach has noticed a significant change in his mechanics and velocity. His opinion is backed up by radar readings we've seen on TV and reports we've gotten from fans at games. His opinion is further backed up by comments made by Leo Mazzone this spring regarding Loewen. Does any of that matter to you at all or do you just wish to ignore it and not care?

I'm will be concerned if this is the case in June or July or if he never regains that velocity.

Until then, i am not going to jump off of a cliff about it.