This series is an example of why you don’t trade any of Holliday, Basallo, or Mayo, unless is for an ACE

[allquixotic]

I think, as pitchers become more injury-prone, the overall market value of elite pitchers will decrease. Even the Dodgers and Yankees can only absorb so many elite pitchers losing 20-25% of their career best years and 20-40% of their contract (or years under team control, as the case may be) to Tommy John surgery.

The market economy will hopefully see that the near-insane risk associated with any single pitcher makes them less valuable, on the whole, than position players. It may then become easier to afford them.

 

[OriolesMagic83]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Even for an ace I wouldn't trade them. I would trade Kjerstad for an ace though.

If an ace was available, a team would laugh at Kjerstad as the major piece in a trade.

[Safelykept]

1 hour ago, allquixotic said:

I think, as pitchers become more injury-prone, the overall market value of elite pitchers will decrease. Even the Dodgers and Yankees can only absorb so many elite pitchers losing 20-25% of their career best years and 20-40% of their contract (or years under team control, as the case may be) to Tommy John surgery.

The market economy will hopefully see that the near-insane risk associated with any single pitcher makes them less valuable, on the whole, than position players. It may then become easier to afford them.

 

Pitchers have already become more injury prone. When the market will adjust?,who knows but it will, and part of that reason will be our Front Office. There will be upgrades at the deadline But Dont look for Mike to overpay

[Hallas]

5 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I think the only way you get Webb is with what you're proposing Mayo or Basallo plus additional prospect. Giants aren't usually a team that sell, but they could use multiple guys over just having Webb.

Webb is the type of player you would give up a top prospect for over the likes of Garrett Crochet and  Mason Miller.  Orioles would have to part with a pitching prospect too.  If Scherzer can still pitch maybe you pick up his contract and part with a lesser prospect.

 

You think one of Basallo/Mayo and one of Kjerstad/Norby/Stowers and maybe a non-pitcher outside the top-100 would get it done?

[theobird]

3 hours ago, Hallas said:

 

You think one of Basallo/Mayo and one of Kjerstad/Norby/Stowers and maybe a non-pitcher outside the top-100 would get it done?

If we offered Basallo/mayo and Kjerstad along with a box of rosin bags for Webb and the Giants didn’t take it…..they would be beyond stupid. And so would we.

[sportsfan8703]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, but that's dumb.  And you should know dumb stuff when you hear it.  Like, trading for Luis Robert is a bad idea.  He's almost always hurt and when he's been on the field this year, he's been pretty awful.  

Mason Miller is more appealing since he'd be under so many years of control.  I'm not advocating for us to trade one of the big three for him, but I can understand why someone would want to.  And, really, if they're going to want to trade one of the big 3, make it Mayo or Basallo.

Haynie is there (I'm assuming, it's been forever since I've listened to anything he's had to say) to say stupid stuff to stir the pot and get people to listen and to call in.  That's it, that's all he exists to do.  

Just because an opinion is popular doesn't mean it's a good idea.  The casual fan probably has no idea just how bad Luis Robert is and how often he's hurt, they just know he was a hot name a few years ago and plays on a terrible team.  I promise you that's as far as they've thought it through.  Pay no attention to them.

I’m just pointing out that we have a really successful and popular team. Therefore, we have a lot of “new” fans with new ideas. Not all O’s fans have been members here for the last 10-20 years like us. 

People want to win. And want to win a WS. Maybe that isn’t so dumb. 

Gone are the days where we’re the only fans talking day to day maneuverings about the O’s. 

To the main point, I wouldn’t trade any of our big 3 for any reliever in baseball, but I’m accepting the reality that it could “cost us” a WS this year. I’d rather hedge with the big 3 and have the best odds of being a 90+ win team the next 5-10 years then going “all in” for this year. 

[Sports Guy]

9 hours ago, Hallas said:

Would Logan Webb qualify?  Would the Giants trade him?  He's under contract through 2028 under a very team friendly deal and it doesn't look like the Giants are going anywhere any time soon.  I'd give up Mayo+ or Basallo+ for him, with the plus being any one of Kjerstad, Norby, Stowers, etc.

 

He provides help for us for the playoff push and gives us continuity for upcoming years with Burnes hitting the open market after this year.

The Giants need a complete rebuild but I don’t see them doing it.  
 

 

[Sports Guy]

I know Webb has been really good but the lack of missed bats, the put the ball in play mentality and the ugly statcast page would have me weary.  
 

How good is he in a more friendly hitters park, out of a division with friendly pitchers parks and out of the weaker league in general?

Im sure he would still be very good but his profile just worries me.

Edited June 21 by Sports Guy

[Aristotelian]

6 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If an ace was available, a team would laugh at Kjerstad as the major piece in a trade.

The Rangers got Scherzer for Luisangel Acuna. Kjerstad is ranked all of two spots behind Mayo in the MLB top 100. I don't see why Kjerstad can't get us a good pitcher. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

9 hours ago, Hallas said:

 

You think one of Basallo/Mayo and one of Kjerstad/Norby/Stowers and maybe a non-pitcher outside the top-100 would get it done?

I don't think the Giants would do it for that proposed package and I don't think they're selling anyways thinking a good second half gets them the third wildcard spot. And the price to ultimately land Webb would probably make me balk at making the trade.

Elias is going to have some important decisions to make the next month with which players he's willing to move to position the Orioles for a long postseason run.

[LookitsPuck]

There is zero reason to trade for Crochet. There's an innings limit on him. So we shouldn't expect to leverage him much at all this year. 

[LookitsPuck]

12 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If an ace was available, a team would laugh at Kjerstad as the major piece in a trade.

Kjerstad could be a #1 prospect for a bunch of teams. Kjerstad could most definitely be a major piece in a trade.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Kjerstad could be a #1 prospect for a bunch of teams. Kjerstad could most definitely be a major piece in a trade.

Kjerstad with two other good prospects should land the Orioles a good pitcher. Depending on the target it might only take one additional prospect packaged with Kjerstad. 
 

Kjerstad would have easily been the Orioles best prospect between Manny and Adley. 

Edited June 21 by OsFanSinceThe80s

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I know Webb has been really good but the lack of missed bats, the put the ball in play mentality and the ugly statcast page would have me weary.  
 

How good is he in a more friendly hitters park, out of a division with friendly pitchers parks and out of the weaker league in general?

Im sure he would still be very good but his profile just worries me.

I want to offer this as a different possibility of looking at the game and assessing value...

If the truest principal of "money ball" is about being able to take advantage of market inequities, then players like Webb (and our very own Santander for that matter) are the kinds of players in the statcast era where you can get value from them because they may be "devalued" to some degree because they are more traditional "counting numbers" kind of players.

This is where I see the competitive advantage right now. In an era where just about every attribute is being studied and can be quantified (sprint speed, bat speed, rotations on a pitcher's pitches, etc.). It's like the game has gone so high tech and data driven (with the rest of society) that traditional means of measuring the game are now being undervalued or devalued (BA, RBIs, pitcher wins, quality starts, etc.).

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

The Rangers got Scherzer for Luisangel Acuna. Kjerstad is ranked all of two spots behind Mayo in the MLB top 100. I don't see why Kjerstad can't get us a good pitcher. 

Is Scherzer sill a "good pitcher"?