Wieters

[Jimmy Mad]

No mention of Wieters, but another article with information about the entire process with some good details.

http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/draft/2007/notebooks/allansimpson/notebook_81307.aspx

[zff4]

That's tough to prove, since they didn't lose them. How many teams have actually failed to sign a high first round pick over the last 5-10 years, and how many of them were Boras clients. I can think of Philly and J.D. Drew. Anyone else?

.

Hochevar. He went low in the draft precisely because he was in the Boras stable but was considered first round material if not the highest in that draft.

And didn't the Royals pay him more than the Dodgers were willing to pay? Can't remember

[hoosiers]

That's tough to prove, since they didn't lose them. How many teams have actually failed to sign a high first round pick over the last 5-10 years, and how many of them were Boras clients. I can think of Philly and J.D. Drew. Anyone else?

It's rare. Given the top prospects and the teams involved, there is overwhelmingly a "meeting of the minds." It's a combination of the prospect yielding and the team finding the $.

Markakis was a DFE who passed on some $ and did not sign - not exactly the same. So was Beato. As was the pitcher KC took a year ago. The silly thing is that, in each instance, all the player was looking for in a signing bonus in the next draft a little larger than the one passed up. Yet, theoretically, the player lost a full year toward development and, possibly, free agency. If these guys have real major league talent, it's silly to delay FA by a year over even $1M.

[geschinger]

That's tough to prove, since they didn't lose them. How many teams have actually failed to sign a high first round pick over the last 5-10 years, and how many of them were Boras clients. I can think of Philly and J.D. Drew. Anyone else?

Jason Varitek is another... But as the offers are now in the millions turning down a well above slot offer doesn't make any sense.

As for Weaver, it has been widely reported that it was a take it or leave it offer. They are using the same approach this year as well.

From Touted pick Harvey not close to signing

Eight days before the new Aug. 15 deadline to sign players from the amateur draft, the Angels are no closer to reeling in third-round pick Matt Harvey than they were when they selected the highly touted high school pitcher two months ago.

Harvey, a 6-foot-4, 210-pound right-hander from Groton, Conn., was a projected first-round pick who fell to the third round, 118th overall, because most teams feared advisor Scott Boras' asking price, believed to be in the $2.5-million range.

The Angels, having had some success with difficult-to-sign Boras clients -- see Jered Weaver, 2005 -- took a chance on Harvey, hoping they might get first-round talent at later-round prices. But scouting director Eddie Bane said the Angels have been thwarted in their attempts to negotiate with Harvey.

Boras said his office "has not received any calls from the Angels regarding Harvey," and even if it did, NCAA rules prohibit him from dealing with the Angels directly. He can only advise Harvey, who has signed a letter of intent with college power North Carolina.

"The Angels wrote a letter and called once; they haven't made an offer," Boras said. "A lot of teams will get serious on Aug. 13."

Bane still thinks the Angels have a "50-50 chance" of signing Harvey and said he would make an offer this week. It appears the Angels are approaching Harvey as they did Weaver, who was given a take-it-or-leave-it, $4-million offer that Weaver took at the end of a contentious, year-long negotiation.

[JTrea81]

No mention of Wieters, but another article with information about the entire process with some good details.

http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/draft/2007/notebooks/allansimpson/notebook_81307.aspx

The article brings up two good points. The first is that 11 of 12 Boras clients that were drafted haven't signed. The second, that all aspects of deals with ML contracts have to be done by the deadline, so if a physical is needed for a ML contract that would mean Wieters will have to take one tomorrow for the deal to go through. So if Wieters is in town that means he's going to sign. If he's a no-show then you can forget about it. So it won't take until the 11:59 PM deadline to know.

Also mentioned in there is the Yankees agreeing to deals with all their unsigned picks for above slot money. I don't think they'll get in too much trouble...

[hoosiers]

i can't believe anybody is defending not signing Wieters. There is no excuse for not getting this done. Give him $15M if thats what it takes. That'd be better than not signing him.

Not to single out Mackus, but there's another point to be made here.

We passed on signing Wade Townsend, who make a colossally stupid decision to go back to school and delay his FA, with the ninth overall pick and turned that lemon of an experience into lemonade with GOlson.

I'm surprised that so many here, just a couple of years after finding a better pitcher with the 51st or so selection than many candidates available at the ninth selection, forget this. And saved good $ in the process.

[Sports Guy]

Not to single out Mackus, but there's another point to be made here.

We passed on signing Wade Townsend, who make a colossally stupid decision to go back to school and delay his FA, with the ninth overall pick and turned that lemon of an experience into lemonade with GOlson.

I'm surprised that so many here, just a couple of years after finding a better pitcher with the 51st or so selection than many candidates available at the ninth selection, forget this. And saved good $ in the process.

Wieters is a much better talent than Townsend and represents a much greater need.

[geschinger]

Not to single out Mackus, but there's another point to be made here.

We passed on signing Wade Townsend, who make a colossally stupid decision to go back to school and delay his FA, with the ninth overall pick and turned that lemon of an experience into lemonade with GOlson.

I'm surprised that so many here, just a couple of years after finding a better pitcher with the 51st or so selection than many candidates available at the ninth selection, forget this. And saved good $ in the process.

To be fair though, Townsend was being lowballed. Turning the offer down on principle when the O's were trying to cheat him by refusing to even offer slot money is a lot different than turning down an offer that is 2x slot money or more.

[CEB]

A million dollars or a bowl of green m&m's may not sound like a lot, but negotiations are sometimes funny things. They can sometimes get sidetracked by personalities, perceived inequities and slights. Everyone wants to be treated fairly and with respect. No one want to feel taken advantage of....

That is why open communications and a deadline are so important to a successful outcome. Most parties don't respond well to surprises or ultimatums, be they agents or owners. That's what leads to failed signings or bad contracts.

Peter Angelos was/is litigator, not a bargainer, but he can no doubt close a deal. If I remember right, most of those big asbestos cases were settlements, not court awards.

In many types of negotiations, especially labor negotiations, the existence of a "pattern" is important to both sides. By looking at other settlements, both sides can judge what is likely to be seen as reasonable outcome for both sides. Mistakes and poor settlements arise when there are dramatically different expectations or poor communications.

With each subsequent signing, the MLB front offices gain additional political "cover" for bonuses above the "slot" and both parties get a better look at the pattern being set and the reasonableness of the offers in the most difficult of negotiations. There will be enormous pressure on all by tomorrow afternoon and evening. That is when things will get interesting and serious. Everything else is just posturing. That when the "real" negotiations will begin and when MacPhail and Boras will earn their money.

Remember, the rules are dramatically different this year. They were changed by management to attempt to gain greater control over signings and shift leverage. A player can't simply wait and bargain for 9-12 months with few perceived consequences like Wade Townsend did with the Orioles. The August 15th signing deadline creates real pressure on both parties.

What Selig failed to understand is that, like always, the owners have strong incentives to cheat and no means or will to enforce discipline. That's what made Marvin Miller a wizard and a genius.

Let the man go to work....

CEB

[RShack]

The article brings up two good points. The first is that 11 of 12 Boras clients that were drafted haven't signed.

Right. I don't know any more than anybody else, but I imagine this means that the floodgates will open late-ish tomorrow...

The second, that all aspects of deals with ML contracts have to be done by the deadline, so if a physical is needed for a ML contract that would mean Wieters will have to take one tomorrow for the deal to go through. So if Wieters is in town that means he's going to sign. If he's a no-show then you can forget about it. So it won't take until the 11:59 PM deadline to know.

I don't know the details, but I can't imagine that the medical stuff has to wait for the rest of a deal to be agreed to. I'd guess the medical was done before the end of last week.

[hoosiers]

To be fair though, Townsend was being lowballed. Turning the offer down on principle when the O's were trying to cheat him by refusing to even offer slot money is a lot different than turning down an offer that is 2x slot money or more.

Point taken, but slot is a guideline and not a player's birthright. Players who sign above and below slot do so based on agreements with teams about their market value. That most players are taken according to their talent level means that they fall in line with slot.

Townsend ultimately signed for an incremental amount above the Os offer that in no way justifies possibly putting free agency off a year.

[JTrea81]

Right. I don't know any more than anybody else, but I imagine this means that the floodgates will open late-ish tomorrow...

I don't know the details, but I can't imagine that the medical stuff has to wait for the rest of a deal to be agreed to. I'd guess the medical was done before the end of last week.

Usually with FA's or trades the physical is the last step before the deal is completed. I think the case would be the same for signing draft picks to a ML contract.

[hoosiers]

Wieters is a much better talent than Townsend and represents a much greater need.

Yes, but that does not mean that Wieters should receive a blank check.

[ScottieBaseball]

I guess I don't get it, why do we care how much we pay for Weiters? This guy is an impact player by every scout's account. We have NO player in our system of the caliber player of Weiters. It is not my money we are spending. The Orioles have wasted so many millions of dollars on proven crappy players(ie. Gibbons, Payton, Baez, etc.) why wouldn't you spend it some cash to sign big time talents to aid the organization and build back towards respectability??? Signing Weiters also helps the Orioles gain a bit of credibility around baseball. Everyone was shocked the O's drafted Weiters. We saw it as a sign the O's were actually starting to get serious about WINNING! If they do not sign Weiters, at whatever cost, the O's will be dealt a severe blow in their efforts to become relevant again. Agents, scouts, gm's, players will all the same thing....."typical loser Orioles, they will never get it."

Nice post.

I agree on all accounts. The Orioles are not in a position to be thrifty. They have ZERO leverage. The stadium is more than half-empty on every given night, save for homestands versus the Red Sox and Yankees, in which case they're full of out-of-town fans.

I'm not declaring Matt Wieters the saviour of this franchise. I don't think that's fair to put on any one man's shoulders. The situation itself, though, will be a clear indicator as to what direction this team is really headed.

The last thing I want to hear come Thursday morning and the O's are Wieters-less are excuses referencing "long-term plans" and "over-priced market".

[ScottieBaseball]

I don't know the details, but I can't imagine that the medical stuff has to wait for the rest of a deal to be agreed to. I'd guess the medical was done before the end of last week.

Just to clarify...EVERYTHING has to be done before 11:59pm tomorrow, including the physical. Whether or not that's already been done I'm not sure. There can't be an "agreement in principal". It has to be a signed contract with all T's crossed and lower-case J's dotted and filed with Major League Baseball.