Do we agree that developing Kjerstad RF, Holliday 2B and Mayo 1B/DH.......

[Brooks The Great]

1 hour ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Mayo at 3B is an oblong peg in a round hole. You could wedge him in there but he really doesn't fit. Westberg has shown that he is a much better option there, IMHO.

Where else are you playing Holiday? He seems to have a solid skillset for 2B that needs to be refined a bit. I believe in his bat and think he will hit. Is he the guy you groom to lead off? That would be my strategy if I were making decisions. He will continue to develop the bat to ball skills necessary, he has the speed. His sneaky power makes him dangerous at the top of the order where first pitch fastballs are still relatively common.

Holliday is a clear outfielder to me, most likely a CF, and at worst a corner outfielder. If Elias doesn't see the same thing, I further question his ability to be the right GM for this organization after the awful 2024 season he just had. 

Holliday is a poor defender at both 2B and SS. But he has the elite speed to be an adequate outfielder. And with Cedric Mullins rapidly declining, determining whether Holliday can be a possible long-term solution in CF should be a priority for Elias this offseason. 

[Pickles]

The primary goal of the 2025 season should be winning the division.

If "developing" the three players in the OP, serves that goal, they should play.  If not, they shouldn't.

As it stands right now, Holliday shouldn't be on the ML team.  He should not be playing over Urias or Mateo.  Now, he might come back in spring training, and show great improvement.  That's not beyond the realm of possibility.  But as things stood in October 2024, he shouldn't be playing over those guys on a team that has any intention of trying to win games.

The idea that he "has nothing left to prove in AAA" is weak.  He's got 450 PAs in AAA with a batting average of 270.  He could definitely perform better down there.  Likewise, he can continue to develop physically down there.  Most importantly, he can continue to improve defensively down there.

Kjerstad looks like he's going to have a full-time role available to him next year, if they don't resign Santander and I don't think they will.  (Even if they bring back Santander, they'd probably let O'hearn go, and Kjerstad would still have quite a few abs coming his way.)

Mayo could probably start out as a DH vs LHP,  with some spot starts at 1b and 3b.  If he performs he'll get more pt.  If he doesn't, he'll probably end up back in the minors.  But he's in the same boat as Holliday: If he can't beat out Mountcastle for an everyday role, he shouldn't be handed one.  And he showed nothing last year suggesting you clear one out for him by trading Mountcasle.

So each case is a little different, but the primary goal of the team should be winning the division, and the playing time of those three guys will depend on how much they help or hurt that primary goal.

Cowser is the template.  Nobody was handing him anything but he came in and performed and took a job.  If the other 3 can't do that, they don't deserve a job.

[terpoh]

I think going into 2025 with 3 starting LH OF is a mistake. Especially with 2 other LH infielders in the projected lineup. We will really struggle against LHP, again.

[e16bball]

I still think Holliday to CF (with Westburg to 2B) is a tough idea to shake long-term.

Seems to be a better use of Jackson’s tools (elite sprint speed, mediocre hands, below-average arm). And it feels like it’d be much easier to find a full-time 3B with a MOO type RH bat than it would be to find a good-fielding LF/CF type with that sort of offensive profile. 

[wildcard]

5 hours ago, Pickles said:

The primary goal of the 2025 season should be winning the division.

If "developing" the three players in the OP, serves that goal, they should play.  If not, they shouldn't.

As it stands right now, Holliday shouldn't be on the ML team.  He should not be playing over Urias or Mateo.  Now, he might come back in spring training, and show great improvement.  That's not beyond the realm of possibility.  But as things stood in October 2024, he shouldn't be playing over those guys on a team that has any intention of trying to win games.

The idea that he "has nothing left to prove in AAA" is weak.  He's got 450 PAs in AAA with a batting average of 270.  He could definitely perform better down there.  Likewise, he can continue to develop physically down there.  Most importantly, he can continue to improve defensively down there.

Kjerstad looks like he's going to have a full-time role available to him next year, if they don't resign Santander and I don't think they will.  (Even if they bring back Santander, they'd probably let O'hearn go, and Kjerstad would still have quite a few abs coming his way.)

Mayo could probably start out as a DH vs LHP,  with some spot starts at 1b and 3b.  If he performs he'll get more pt.  If he doesn't, he'll probably end up back in the minors.  But he's in the same boat as Holliday: If he can't beat out Mountcastle for an everyday role, he shouldn't be handed one.  And he showed nothing last year suggesting you clear one out for him by trading Mountcasle.

So each case is a little different, but the primary goal of the team should be winning the division, and the playing time of those three guys will depend on how much they help or hurt that primary goal.

Cowser is the template.  Nobody was handing him anything but he came in and performed and took a job.  If the other 3 can't do that, they don't deserve a job.

While I agree the primary goal of the 2025 O's is to win,   I don't agree with your approach for the 3 prospects.

If prospects are given a few at bats here and there and they don't hit its hard to know if they are not hitting because they are not getting regular at bats or they are not hitting because they can't hit.

From what I saw last season the O's can hit well with one prospect struggling.  The O's can probably average 5 runs per game in that situation.  But if a bunch of guys are struggling at the same time that is where trouble lives.

So I would see which of the 3 prospects hits the best in ST and give him a spot.   Hopefully that is Kjerstad to begin with.   Once that prospect is doing well I would call up  the 2nd prospect and give him whatever time to succeed that he needs.  If could be a couple of months.   

Then the 3rd prospect gets his chance.   I  believe committing playing time to prospects is key to them working through their issues and establishing themselves in the majors.

Edited 1 hour ago by wildcard

[eddie83]

6 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

Holliday is a clear outfielder to me, most likely a CF, and at worst a corner outfielder. If Elias doesn't see the same thing, I further question his ability to be the right GM for this organization after the awful 2024 season he just had. 

Holliday is a poor defender at both 2B and SS. But he has the elite speed to be an adequate outfielder. And with Cedric Mullins rapidly declining, determining whether Holliday can be a possible long-term solution in CF should be a priority for Elias this offseason. 

He is 20 years old. Without question he can get better both sides of the ball. 
 

His skills should be fine at 2nd.  

[eddie83]

5 hours ago, Pickles said:

The primary goal of the 2025 season should be winning the division.

If "developing" the three players in the OP, serves that goal, they should play.  If not, they shouldn't.

As it stands right now, Holliday shouldn't be on the ML team.  He should not be playing over Urias or Mateo.  Now, he might come back in spring training, and show great improvement.  That's not beyond the realm of possibility.  But as things stood in October 2024, he shouldn't be playing over those guys on a team that has any intention of trying to win games.

The idea that he "has nothing left to prove in AAA" is weak.  He's got 450 PAs in AAA with a batting average of 270.  He could definitely perform better down there.  Likewise, he can continue to develop physically down there.  Most importantly, he can continue to improve defensively down there.

Kjerstad looks like he's going to have a full-time role available to him next year, if they don't resign Santander and I don't think they will.  (Even if they bring back Santander, they'd probably let O'hearn go, and Kjerstad would still have quite a few abs coming his way.)

Mayo could probably start out as a DH vs LHP,  with some spot starts at 1b and 3b.  If he performs he'll get more pt.  If he doesn't, he'll probably end up back in the minors.  But he's in the same boat as Holliday: If he can't beat out Mountcastle for an everyday role, he shouldn't be handed one.  And he showed nothing last year suggesting you clear one out for him by trading Mountcasle.

So each case is a little different, but the primary goal of the team should be winning the division, and the playing time of those three guys will depend on how much they help or hurt that primary goal.

Cowser is the template.  Nobody was handing him anything but he came in and performed and took a job.  If the other 3 can't do that, they don't deserve a job.

I will be shocked if Holliday isn’t starting at 2nd. 
 

It’s because I think going thru last year will help him. His talent is extremely high. 

[Gentile4]

Acknowledging hindsight is always 20/20, if we move Holliday to CF, then what was the point of drafting Bradfield, whose offensive skillset doesn't translate to a corner spot.

[Roll Tide]

10 hours ago, wildcard said:

is one of the main goals of the 2025 season?

All three go to ST with that in mind.   Not all three have to break camp as regulars or even in be in the majors to start the season.   But by mid season these guys should be regulars.   This should be part of the plan to improve the O's playoff chances IMO.

What say you?

I’m sorry but Kjerstad doesn’t look more to me defensively than a liability. The routine plays look shaky. To me he’s a DH unless he can be converted to a 1B.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m sorry but Kjerstad doesn’t look more to me defensively than a liability. The routine plays look shaky. To me he’s a DH unless he can be converted to a 1B.

That's ok.   We can disagree on that.   He made the plays I expected him to make while I was watching.

[eddie83]

15 minutes ago, Gentile4 said:

Acknowledging hindsight is always 20/20, if we move Holliday to CF, then what was the point of drafting Bradfield, whose offensive skillset doesn't translate to a corner spot.

You won’t have to worry about that.
 

They aren’t moving the 20 year old off 2nd. He wouldn’t have been the #1 prospect in the sport if he didn’t have the skill set to handle it. 

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

That's ok.   We can disagree on that.   He made the plays I expected him to make while I was watching.

Fangraphs has his UZR / 150 at -2.4 . 
 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/heston-kjerstad/31166/stats?position=DH/OF

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Fangraphs has his UZR / 150 at -2.4 . 
 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/heston-kjerstad/31166/stats?position=DH/OF

He does not have a good glove.

 

I think he can be adequate. Just make the routine plays. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Fangraphs has his UZR / 150 at -2.4 . 
 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/heston-kjerstad/31166/stats?position=DH/OF

Yeah, it's a real shame too since no one in the history of baseball has ever gotten better at anything with more reps and experience. If you aren't good at something as a 24 year old rookie, you might as well retire.

[Roll Tide]

Just now, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Yeah, it's a real shame too since no one in the history of baseball has ever gotten better at anything with more reps and experience. If you aren't good at something as a 24 year old rookie, you might as well retire.

Are you serious? Kjerstad has probably been playing baseball for 19ish years