After Two Weeks of Pie...

[Old#5fan]

Your logic right now is the following: "Scouts often misjudge players in many other sports. Therefore, they must have misjudged Felix Pie, based on what I (not a professional scout) have seen in the past 2 weeks."

That's the worst logic I have ever heard.

Only if I turn out to be wrong, and I highly doubt that will be the case. However, feel free to remind me of it if the opposite occurs and Pie suddenly becomes a great outfielder as he was supposed to be to begin with! :clap3:

[Old#5fan]

career 8.7 UZR/150 in CF? 24.6 UZR in 2004 (career high)? sounds like a pretty good defensive CFer to me.

Corey Patterson looks like a Gold Glover compared to Pie.

[Sanfran327]

Pie has had 31 ABs this year. Give him a freakin' break. New team, new league, new ball park, new atmosphere for him ENTIRELY. Let the guy do his job for more than two weeks befrore you cut him.

[Burg]

Your logic right now is the following: "Scouts often misjudge players in many other sports. Therefore, they must have misjudged Felix Pie, based on what I (not a professional scout) have seen in the past 2 weeks."

That's the worst logic I have ever heard.

Stick around then, because this is the tip of the iceberg.

As for OldFan's NFL comparison, I would point out that this is truly a case of apples and oranges.

It is MUCH more difficult to look at a college QB who, generally, has started less than 30 games at the NCAA level and attempt to project his success at the NFL level. First, there's the small sample size. Second, there's the vast difference in playing QB at the NCAA level and at the NFL level. Third, there's the different systems that a kid will have to learn. Fourth, there's the significant risk of injury.

Judging fielding ability, on the other hand, is MUCH easier because fielding in the minors and fielding in the majors are just about identical.

In short, I think OldFan is way off on his take on scouts.

[Sanfran327]

Corey Patterson looks like a Gold Glover compared to Pie.

Probably because Patterson plays Gold-Glove caliber defense in center field.

[Frobby]

My staunch belief is you can either field well or you cannot. There is no such thing as suddenly becoming a poor fielder. Two weeks of being atrocious is quite telling when the player was supposed to be at least above average to begin with. I don't automatically believe everything I read especially scouting reports, unlike some here apparently do. Felix Pie is a defensive liability until he shows otherwise. If I was a betting man I think I would win in my belief this kid was overated to begin with.

I guess you've forgotten that when Nick Markakis started as a rookie, he played a bunch of games in LF, and even some in CF, at the beginning of the year, and he looked very shaky. Then Jay Gibbons got hurt, he moved to RF which was his primary position in the minors, and he was impressive there right away.

I think it is foolish to assume that converting from CF to LF is easy. And I also think you are foolish to watch a guy play 8-9 games and form such rigid opinions. I am not saying you will turn out to be wrong, but you consistently amaze me with your habit of reaching conclusions after watching someone only a few times.

[Burg]

Only if I turn out to be wrong, and I highly doubt that will be the case. However, feel free to remind me of it if the opposite occurs and Pie suddenly becomes a great outfielder as he was supposed to be to begin with! :clap3:

For what seems to be the zillionth time, whether or not you end up to be correct HAS NO BEARING on whether your logic was sound.

Honest question, do you really not grasp this fact?

[bobmc]

Mike Devereaux did. He was on MASN earlier this year and said he found the transition very difficult because of the fact that many balls to the corners are hooked or sliced and have various types of spin. He also said the wall comes into play far more often for a corner OF.

....which should be an easier play for a lefthander - like Pie or Brady, e.g. It will be interesting to see how he adapts to CF again and how he looks out there on his "instincts".

[JTrea81]

career 8.7 UZR/150 in CF? 24.6 UZR in 2004 (career high)? sounds like a pretty good defensive CFer to me.

His 2006 season pretty much skews the results, when he was a +34 for the year.

From 2004-2005 he was only a +11 combined and only a +3 combined from 2007-2008.

[DrungoHazewood]

Corey Patterson looks like a Gold Glover compared to Pie.

Corey Patterson was a much better fielder than many Gold Glovers.

[Steel Curtain]

Not all scouts are grossly incompetent but some apparently are and in all sports. Scouting of NFL QB's has been particularly egregious over the years.

My staunch belief is you can either field well or you cannot. There is no such thing as suddenly becoming a poor fielder. Two weeks of being atrocious is quite telling when the player was supposed to be at least above average to begin with. I don't automatically believe everything I read especially scouting reports, unlike some here apparently do. Felix Pie is a defensive liability until he shows otherwise. If I was a betting man I think I would win in my belief this kid was overated to begin with.

It's also widely considered the most difficult position in football, if not all sports.

But consider this. Excellent pitchers go through slumps where they struggle to throw a strike. Great hitters can go a week at a time without a hit. Why is fielding independent from the struggles all major league players face?

Or even more simply: you can not judge a player in two weeks, period.

[PaulFolk]

For what seems to be the zillionth time, whether or not you end up to be correct HAS NO BEARING on whether your logic was sound.

Honest question, do you really not grasp this fact?

Sounds like someone failed Logic 101! :laughlol:

Seriously, it doesn't make sense to reason that two shaky weeks of playing a new position outweighs an entire career of well-regarded defense.

[DrungoHazewood]

His 2006 season pretty much skews the results, when he was a +34 for the year.

From 2004-2005 he was only a +11 combined and only a +3 combined from 2007-2008.

So you're saying he's overrated because he some years he was only above-average in the major leagues at the hardest OF position, and some years he was damn near the best outfielder on the planet?

[JTrea81]

So you're saying he's overrated because he some years he was only above-average in the major leagues at the hardest OF position, and some years he was damn near the best outfielder on the planet?

I would say he was the best OFer in 2006, but regressed after that. It's possible, just look at Andruw Jones.

But before 2006, he was only above average. I think Pie is in the same boat. His speed makes up for his lack of instincts out there. But you only have speed for so long.

I'd admit I wanted to extend Patterson after his 2006 season, but I'm glad we didn't. Jones is a much better defender out there.

[DrungoHazewood]

I would say he was the best OFer in 2006, but regressed after that. It's possible, just look at Andruw Jones.

But before 2006, he was only above average. I think Pie is in the same boat. His speed makes up for his lack of instincts out there. But you only have speed for so long.

I'd admit I wanted to extend Patterson after his 2006 season, but I'm glad we didn't. Jones is a much better defender out there.

I'd avoid extrapolating any conclusions based on a guy who went from major league all star to AA scrub inside of 18 months.

Do you really think Pie has lost his speed? He musta been Flash Gordon before.