MacPhail's frugality is hurting this team

[Hank Scorpio]

Waiting 11 years to see a winning team can do that to you...

Well, you've seen more from MacPhail in 2 years than you'd seen in the previous 9.

I'm not sure that's debatable.

Capisce?

[JTrea81]

Well, you've seen more from MacPhail in 2 years than you'd seen in the previous 9.

I'm not sure that's debatable.

Capisce?

MacPhail is an improvement over the previous regimes in most regards, but there is so much more that he should and could be doing with the resources the Orioles have to get us back to where we need to be.

It just gets really frustrating to see him stick to a plan regardless of the opportunities there are to deviate due to the Orioles resources to get us to compete faster.

[Hank Scorpio]

MacPhail is an improvement over the previous regimes in most regards, but there is so much more that he should and could be doing with the resources the Orioles have to get us back to where we need to be.

It just gets really frustrating to see him stick to a plan regardless of the opportunities there are to deviate due to the Orioles resources to get us to compete faster.

Gotta build the foundation before you buy the penthouse, bud.

MacPhail and Jordan have done a magnificent job of doing a little bit of both via the draft & a couple trades. That's not easy to do in such a short amount of time.

[Hank Scorpio]

BTW, I never dreamed I'd hear someone, ANYONE, complaining about the Orioles not deviating from a plan.

For years and years we complained about there not BEING a sustained plan.

Shocking.

[RShack]

Oh dear...

Just let it die. Otherwise, you're just encouraging another one of JTrea's week-long spells..

[ledzepp8]

:scratchchinhmm:

Who would you like us to spend $140MM on?

If you don't think the talent is worth the money, you don't spend the money!!!!!

HELLO!!!!

Exactly. We've gotten to the crux of the argument here. JTrea and his almost handful of supporters, want MacPhail to spend money just to spend it.

What's that old cliche? Is that money burning a whole in your pocket?

[ejf1025]

MacPhail is an improvement over the previous regimes in most regards, but there is so much more that he should and could be doing with the resources the Orioles have to get us back to where we need to be.

It just gets really frustrating to see him stick to a plan regardless of the opportunities there are to deviate due to the Orioles resources to get us to compete faster.

In all honesty...do you really find this much fault in what is happening? Or is this mainly just extended fallout from the Tex signing.

(for the sake of full disclosure, I too was livid at the offer we presented and feel it was pretty telling that we will never really compete for premier FAs)

[Burg]

BTW, I never dreamed I'd hear someone, ANYONE, complaining about the Orioles not deviating from a plan.

For years and years we complained about there not BEING a sustained plan.

Shocking.

+1. Amazing that someone could consider coming up with a plan, and adhering to it, a bad thing.

Proof that some aren't happy unless they're unhappy.

[Mike B]

Waiting 11 years to see a winning team can do that to you...

Making the entire board miserable does not exactly help the situation.

[bigbird]

Ha! Are you kidding me!? You really believe that Angelos said "hey, go spend whatever you want on the draft, Boras guys, whatever - blank check!" up through 2007, but as soon as MacPhail came on board they teamed up to clamp down on everything?

First let me state that I do not agree with this thread, probably to the suprise of many. Now I need to chime in on this one. I know for a fact that Duquette ageed to pre draft parameters with Boras for both Weiters and Arrieta. It's also my understanding that Boras told some teams ahead of the O;s that Weiters and Arrieta would not sign with them if drafted. That being said I remember an interview AM gave after being hired and he mentioned that Weiters may not have been his selection if he were in charge before the draft. Bash Flanny and Duq for the likes of Walker and Baez but give them credit for brokering Weiters and Arrieta to become Orioles.

There is also a big difference between drafting Ackley and getting him signed. Same as wanting Tex and signing him. AM got boned by Boras while with the Cubs and hasn't really dealt wirh him since. I posted before the draft that we would not draft Boras clients and it's holding true to form.

[bigbird]

Well, you've seen more from MacPhail in 2 years than you'd seen in the previous 9.

I'm not sure that's debatable.

Capisce?

It is debatable because AM is not operating under the same restrictions, mandates and cash flow as those before him.

[Tony-OH]

First let me state that I do not agree with this thread, probably to the suprise of many. Now I need to chime in on this one. I know for a fact that Duquette ageed to pre draft parameters with Boras for both Weiters and Arrieta. It's also my understanding that Boras told some teams ahead of the O;s that Weiters and Arrieta would not sign with them if drafted. That being said I remember an interview AM gave after being hired and he mentioned that Weiters may not have been his selection if he were in charge before the draft. Bash Flanny and Duq for the likes of Walker and Baez but give them credit for brokering Weiters and Arrieta to become Orioles.

There is also a big difference between drafting Ackley and getting him signed. Same as wanting Tex and signing him. AM got boned by Boras while with the Cubs and hasn't really dealt wirh him since. I posted before the draft that we would not draft Boras clients and it's holding true to form.

I'm certainly fine with giving Duquette credit for allowing Joe to draft Wieters and Arrieta. However, MacPhail is the guy who stepped in at the last second and closed the deal with Boras to get Wieters signed, so he has to get some credit.

Also, I'm fine with avoiding Boras guys unless they are a can't miss guy or a guy the Orioles really, really covet. I'm completely on board with taking players who have agents you can deal with and not have to worry about getting shelled. When a team drafts a premium guy like Wieters, they expect to pay premium, but when you have a half dozen guys who think they are premium guys but most agree they are not, that's when it's smart to avoid the Boras guys.

[Tony-OH]

It is debatable because AM is not operating under the same restrictions, mandates and cash flow as those before him.

It's only debatable if you have a closed, slanted view against MacPhail or have a one-sided blind opinion that things just don't move fast enough.

The minor league system is better, we have young, premium talent on the major league roster, we have broken through the international market, especially in Japan, we have better Dominican facilities, and for once, we have a plan that has not be deviated from.

I give Beattie credit for signing Joe Jordan, I give Duquette/Flanny credit for signing Huff, acquiring Guthrie for nothing, and allowing Jordan to do his thing, and pretty much everything else that is good right now I give credit to MacPhail.

[TonySoprano]

I'm certainly fine with giving Duquette credit for allowing Joe to draft to Wieters and Arrieta. However, MacPhail is the guy who stepped in at the last second and closed the deal with Boras to get Wieters signed, so he has to get some credit.

I thought MacPhail had to pull in Angelos to get the deal done. Otherwise, who knows if the deal would have closed.

[electricRon14]

Sorry this is a few pages back, but...

Originally Posted by DrungoHazewood

"You keep repeating over and over that the O's should spend like a large market team, but they're 23rd in the league in attendance, and reside in the 26th-largest media market in the country (behind Sacramento, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Portland, and Pittsburgh).

According to wikipedia, the television market that is Baltimore is actually 22nd, larger than Pittsburgh, Portland, and Indianapolis. But it is close to those markets in any event.

What this sort of assesment doesn't take into account at all is that the Orioles' media market includes more than just the Baltimore market - which doesn't include most of Montgomery or PG county as well as parts of Howard. And this is to say nothing of DC itself, parts of NoVA, south-central PA, Delaware, etc.

I'm all for the O's being a Baltimore team - road uni's and all - but they have media revenue well beyond a team like the Pirates because the Baltimore-Washington market - even shared with the Nationals - is much larger and more complicated than the simplified media-market ranking (be it 26 or 22) suggests.

This, of course, isn't to sidetrack the whole discussion. And I definitely see your point in terms of the current attendance - though that's a bit of a chicken/egg problem - attendance being so tied to on the field performance.