Phillies are scouting Sherrill. What would we want in return?

[Frobby]

I think there is a very good chance that he will be worth the contract he signed.

But I also think that they should have held off on signing him until now and seen what the market for him was in terms of trade value.

He would have signed that 4/40 deal at any point...No way another team comes close to that.

Honestly, SG, this was not a 100% cold-hearted baseball decision. I think MacPhail (and probably Angelos) felt that they owed it to the fans, and to BRob, to resolve the situation one way or the other rather than having BRob twisting in the wind all during 2009. Personally, I don't think 4/$40 mm is a great deal for the O's, but I also don't feel it's a disaster. And at least it sends a signal that the O's are willing to reward sustained excellence in an Orioles uniform.

[ejf1025]

Honestly, SG, this was not a 100% cold-hearted baseball decision. I think MacPhail (and probably Angelos) felt that they owed it to the fans, and to BRob, to resolve the situation one way or the other rather than having BRob twisting in the wind all during 2009. Personally, I don't think 4/$40 mm is a great deal for the O's, but I also don't feel it's a disaster. And at least it sends a signal that the O's are willing to reward sustained excellence in an Orioles uniform.

Agree with this.

It's rash to call it "foolish" and unrealistic not to take into account PR/fan reaction etc.

[hoosiers]

I thought everyone here loved Donald not so long ago. What happened?

Donald's not quite the prospect some here advocated quite vociferously that he was.

[Sports Guy]

Agree with this.

It's rash to call it "foolish" and unrealistic not to take into account PR/fan reaction etc.

Would the PR be any different if you signed him on Aug 1 vs when they did in the offseason?

[AgentOrange]

This will quite possibly take a lot of the need for GS out, at least enough that they wouldn't pay a ton when they have Lidge when he's healthy and Myers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4360856

I am not 100% sure they would rather hope Myers could come back and fill that role than know what GS can do. Also, GS is lefty, which I think makes him interesting.

Phillies are still in win-now mode and they have a great shot again this year to get to the championship and win it again. It would make sense for them to go after it.

[ejf1025]

Would the PR be any different if you signed him on Aug 1 vs when they did in the offseason?

Yes.

Without looking at their books, scheduled promotions and appearances...I would think that signing Roberts helped sell a few extra tix, potentially buoyed wavering sponsors, etc. Most likely only minimal gains, but gains nonetheless.

Also, there is no guarantee that Roberts would be looking to negotiate in the season...or McPhail for that matter.

I think it was prob more expensive than it should have been, but as you yourself readily claim--he prob will live up to the value of the deal.

Plus, his trade value would have shrunk again.

I think McPhail explored all trade options, didn't find a reasonable return (IHO), determined that for an array of reasons waiting wouldn't have a) lowered Roberts' demands b) helped generate more interest in him and c) unnecessarily risked alienating the fanbase, the players and Roberts to the point he may walk.

Not a horrible line of thinking...certainly not foolish.

You're being pretty over-the-top and cavalier here considering you are viewing this from a 1,000 feet up.

[foxfield]

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20090728_Deal_looking_closer_for_Halladay.html

What would we want from them?

The World Series Championship!

[Sports Guy]

Without looking at their books, scheduled promotions and appearances...I would think that signing Roberts helped sell a few extra tix, potentially buoyed wavering sponsors, etc. Most likely only minimal gains, but gains nonetheless.

Very unlikely this is any impact and giving him a contract in the middle of a bad season could have done the same thing.

Also, there is no guarantee that Roberts would be looking to negotiate in the season...or McPhail for that matter.

Maybe not..But we were giving him a deal no one else would.

Plus, his trade value would have shrunk again.

But we likely could have gotten better than 2 picks worth for him.

I think McPhail explored all trade options, didn't find a reasonable return (IHO), determined that for an array of reasons waiting wouldn't have a) lowered Roberts' demands b) helped generate more interest in him and c) unnecessarily risked alienating the fanbase, the players and Roberts to the point he may walk.

I think he did all of these things as well.

Not a horrible line of thinking...certainly not foolish.

Its foolish if you could have waited, done the same thing during the season(or even in the offseason) and seen what he could have gotten at the deadline. When you can accomplish the same goal 6 months later and in the meantime, perhaps doing better for the team, I think it is foolish not to take advantage of that situation.

You're being pretty over-the-top and cavalier here considering you are viewing this from a 1,000 feet up.

Nah, you just aren't looking at it from every angle and you are way overblowing the PR stuff. The PR would have been good no matter when you re-signed BRob. To act as if it made that much of a difference then vs now is pretty foolish.

If someone is going to buy a ticket to go see BRob, they aren't going to turn down that ticket just because he didn't sign for 40 million..They are buying it to see him, not his contract.

[Mackus]

Very unlikely this is any impact and giving him a contract in the middle of a bad season could have done the same thing.

Maybe not..But we were giving him a deal no one else would.

But we likely could have gotten better than 2 picks worth for him.

I think he did all of these things as well.

Its foolish if you could have waited, done the same thing during the season(or even in the offseason) and seen what he could have gotten at the deadline. When you can accomplish the same goal 6 months later and in the meantime, perhaps doing better for the team, I think it is foolish not to take advantage of that situation.

Nah, you just aren't looking at it from every angle and you are way overblowing the PR stuff. The PR would have been good no matter when you re-signed BRob. To act as if it made that much of a difference then vs now is pretty foolish.

I think you are too easily dismissing the notion that Roberts wouldn't have considered extending during the season, even for the same offer. Its possible he would, maybe even probable, but not a given even if he didn't expect to make as much as a FA as what we were offering.

[rcm134]

Who else would we have to throw in with Sherrill to get Taylor? It'd have to be someone significant. And where did you see that he's projected to be a 1B? I don't see any references to that.

He's a beast though!

http://www.reclinergm.com/minor-update-phillies-top-10-prospects-for-2009/

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/48589117.html?cmpid=15585797

......speaking from the other side of the fence......

We'll give you Taylor and and any other "non-pitcher" prospect for Sherrill and the new kid "Cla Meredith"......

......don't be too quick to say "no"....you'll regret it when Taylor turns out to be a better power hitter than anyone the O's have on the ML or MiL rosters for the next 10 years......

[My O's Face]

......speaking from the other side of the fence......

We'll give you Taylor and and any other "non-pitcher" prospect for Sherrill and the new kid "Cla Meredith"......

......don't be too quick to say "no"....you'll regret it when Taylor turns out to be a better power hitter than anyone the O's have on the ML or MiL rosters for the next 10 years......

I'd take it.

[Sports Guy]

I think you are too easily dismissing the notion that Roberts wouldn't have considered extending during the season, even for the same offer. Its possible he would, maybe even probable, but not a given even if he didn't expect to make as much as a FA as what we were offering.

So, if he doesn't sign during the season and you don't believe you are getting offered enough to move him, you go into the offseason and perhaps get him for a better offer than the one you signed him for.

There is no way anyone beats that 4/40 deal for him. Its just not going to happen.

If he turns it down, then fine..he does...Life goes on.

Perhaps had we kept him, we could get a decent amount of talent for him right now...That would have been good too.

[foxfield]

Very unlikely this is any impact and giving him a contract in the middle of a bad season could have done the same thing.

Maybe not..But we were giving him a deal no one else would.

But we likely could have gotten better than 2 picks worth for him.

I think he did all of these things as well.

Its foolish if you could have waited, done the same thing during the season(or even in the offseason) and seen what he could have gotten at the deadline. When you can accomplish the same goal 6 months later and in the meantime, perhaps doing better for the team, I think it is foolish not to take advantage of that situation.

Nah, you just aren't looking at it from every angle and you are way overblowing the PR stuff. The PR would have been good no matter when you re-signed BRob. To act as if it made that much of a difference then vs now is pretty foolish.

You are dead on here. But I wonder, you often speak correctly of AM needing to "do more". If BR had not been signed yet, do you think you would have an issue with that? In relation to doing something?

I would have been fine trading BRob and in hindsite, it may well have been best. That said, we still ended up with two of the Cubs "targets" and we still have him. Did we overpay? Sure. Was this a mistake that was necessary? Maybe maybe not. But signing him and Kakes, sent a clear message and that message was and is a good one. I do not know if BRob will really be part of the long term solution if we get close.

We STILL need more, but his signing was step and one that was necessary. And we could have certainly paid less if he were signing today. But would we as fans, would you, be happy with leaving him uncommitted this long?

I value your opinion because you clearly think things through, even if I do not always agree. But you are looking at this in hindsight. It didn't happen this way, but it could have been that he was unsigned and having the year of his life...what would it cost then? In goodwill? In dollars?

[TGO]

......speaking from the other side of the fence......

We'll give you Taylor and and any other "non-pitcher" prospect for Sherrill and the new kid "Cla Meredith"......

......don't be too quick to say "no"....you'll regret it when Taylor turns out to be a better power hitter than anyone the O's have on the ML or MiL rosters for the next 10 years......

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat and I'm not even sure who I would pick as the other non-pitcher prospect.

[ejf1025]

Very unlikely this is any impact and giving him a contract in the middle of a bad season could have done the same thing.

Maybe not..But we were giving him a deal no one else would.

But we likely could have gotten better than 2 picks worth for him.

I think he did all of these things as well.

Its foolish if you could have waited, done the same thing during the season(or even in the offseason) and seen what he could have gotten at the deadline. When you can accomplish the same goal 6 months later and in the meantime, perhaps doing better for the team, I think it is foolish not to take advantage of that situation.

Nah, you just aren't looking at it from every angle and you are way overblowing the PR stuff. The PR would have been good no matter when you re-signed BRob. To act as if it made that much of a difference then vs now is pretty foolish.

- No, it couldnt have been done mid-season--especially sponsorship pieces which are hammered out far in advance. This I know. And I believe most premium seating/suites packages are also sold in advance. Regardless...as I said, it would be minimal impact...there nonetheless.

- Yes, that's easy to say in hindsight...if he was having a monster year (actually all he would need is a first half)...he could have easily said I'll just go to FA

- I don't know if that much better than 2 picks. Either way, not a return that really would have helped us all that much.

- And the rest of it is once again, you using hindsight to retro-fit a point. There was ample reason to sign Roberts this off-season. To sit back and brow-beat it now is just ridiculous. Perhaps he could have waited...it's still much ado about nothing. You GREATLY exaggerate the impact of waiting.

And it's pretty insulting to sit there and tell me I'm not considering all the angles...considering that NEITHER of us have access to any of the behind-the-scenes angles. Roberts and his agent coud have easily been saying they would refuse to negotiate in season...or other like threats that needed to be taken seriously.