Wagner in '10?

[Mackus]

This is a GROSS overstatement.

No its not. Old players don't react to injuries the same way as young ones, and this isn't an injury where players are generally at their best during their first year back.

I think he's more likely to be a disappointment next year than he would be to be worth a $6M deal to be our closer.

[ejf1025]

I'm not saying I want Wagner, and I am pretty much lumping myself into the group that I am talking about...

But there was a thread listing about 10 FA's and pretty much no one wants any of them, and now people are laughing at us going after Wagner...

Then, in other threads, there are people saying how ridiculous it would be to trade 3-4 prospects for Gonzalez.

There will also be a ton of people on here whining when we don't do much this offseason, calling for AM's job, etc etc.

So how exactly should we improve the team?

Point taken...

I would also add that there is basically NO long-term risk to signing him and--aside from cash (which considering our projected payroll shouldn't hurt operations one bit)--very little short-term risk.

[Aglets]

I hope we never ever ever go the route of trying to add a clutch closer through FA. It's so illogical. Check this out, these are some of the big closer signings that took place in the last offseason and how they have performed so far:

BJ Ryan in 2009: 6.53 ERA in 20.2 IP (not signed in the last offseason but this one still makes me chuckle when i think of the history) The Jays have learned from their mistake i should hope.

K-Rod in 2009: 3.16 ERA in 57 IP Not bad I suppose but this is basically a full run per game higher than last year and almost 0.7 runs/game higher than his career number. I think this contract will be Ryan-esque by the end.

Brian Fuentes: 4.10 ERA in 41.2 IP

Kerry Wood 4.70 ERA in 44 IP

Point being?

The big RP contracts that work out for the signing team are in the minority. Most of them hurt the team more than they help.

[Mackus]

I'm not saying I want Wagner, and I am pretty much lumping myself into the group that I am talking about...

But there was a thread listing about 10 FA's and pretty much no one wants any of them, and now people are laughing at us going after Wagner...

Then, in other threads, there are people saying how ridiculous it would be to trade 3-4 prospects for Gonzalez.

There will also be a ton of people on here whining when we don't do much this offseason, calling for AM's job, etc etc.

So how exactly should we improve the team?

Trade away guys like Scott for potential long term solutions at SS. Make a move for someone like Hardy.

Sign a couple stop gap players at the corners unless you think Snyder will debut close to the start of the year, then just sign a 3B.

[ejf1025]

No its not. Old players don't react to injuries the same way as young ones, and this isn't an injury where players are generally at their best during their first year back.

I think he's more likely to be a disappointment next year than he would be to be worth a $6M deal to be our closer.

You said "even if he wasn't hurt."

[QBsILLEST1]

Its not necessarily the player that discourages me from saying "yes lets get him". Its more or less where we are as a team. Another arm in the pen is going to be the least effective way of becomeing a winning ball club. First lets get the rotation and the offense playoff caliber. Then, once we need top notch relievers to hold the game to be contenders, then make that splash. The issue also is that we are going to have more starters than rotation slots, so the remaining holes in the bullpen will be filled by those quality arms who also will be much less expensive, enabling us to save the extra money for places of true need.

[ejf1025]

I hope we never ever ever go the route of trying to add a clutch closer through FA. It's so illogical. Check this out, these are some of the big closer signings that took place in the last offseason and how they have performed so far:

BJ Ryan in 2009: 6.53 ERA in 20.2 IP

K-Rod in 2009: 3.16 ERA in 57 IP Not bad I suppose but this is basically a full run per game higher than last year and almost 0.7 runs/game higher than his career number. I think this contract will be Ryan-esque by the end.

Brian Fuentes: 4.10 ERA in 41.2 IP

Kerry Wood 4.70 ERA in 44 IP

Point being?

The big RP contracts that work out for the signing team are in the minority. Most of them hurt the team more than they help.

Nobody is advocating giving him a Ryan/KRod/Wood or even a Fuentes deal.

[Sports Guy]

Why would we want him? This would be worse than the Baez pick up. We have plenty of in-house options who would work just fine and would cost so much less. Even if we had him now on our team, I dont see it helping us make any playoffs runs. IMO our bull pen has been one of the few bright spots now that Mickolio is up, Johnson is pitching well again, Chris Ray has returned back to form. Albers will be back soon and will probably be back to form(he seems to lose his release point at times during the year). Hendrickson has also been helpful out of the pen.

What?

Unless they gave him some big contract, Baez can't hold Wagner's jock...On top of that, all the reports are Wagner is throwing the ball great.

If he is healthy and as of right now, there is no reason to think he isn't, I would be pretty surprised if he wasn't a good contributor out of the pen.

But still, I wouldn't give him more than 1 year.

[QBsILLEST1]

I'm not saying I want Wagner, and I am pretty much lumping myself into the group that I am talking about...

But there was a thread listing about 10 FA's and pretty much no one wants any of them, and now people are laughing at us going after Wagner...

Then, in other threads, there are people saying how ridiculous it would be to trade 3-4 prospects for Gonzalez.

There will also be a ton of people on here whining when we don't do much this offseason, calling for AM's job, etc etc.

So how exactly should we improve the team?

We improve the team by allowing the young kids to get acclimated and seeing where we stand with them, then fill the weak links with premium talent from the FA market. Its a process that we must follow, theres no sense in breaking the process now that we are so close.

[QBsILLEST1]

What?

Unless they gave him some big contract, Baez can't hold Wagner's jock...On top of that, all the reports are Wagner is throwing the ball great.

If he is healthy and as of right now, there is no reason to think he isn't, I would be pretty surprised if he wasn't a good contributor out of the pen.

But still, I wouldn't give him more than 1 year.

Im not talking about how good Baez is compared to Wagner, its obvious Wagner is a premium bull pen arm, but why lock up so much money on a bullpen arm? You are talking about $10-12 mill, thats more than we are paying anyone on this current team.

[ejf1025]

We improve the team by allowing the young kids to get acclimated and seeing where we stand with them, then fill the weak links with premium talent from the FA market. Its a process that we must follow, theres no sense in breaking the process now that we are so close.

Whose job would he be taking? Sarfate's? Meredith's?

[ejf1025]

Im not talking about how good Baez is compared to Wagner, its obvious Wagner is a premium bull pen arm, but why lock up so much money on a bullpen arm? You are talking about $10-12 mill, thats more than we are paying anyone on this current team.

A year?? I doubt anybody gives him a 20 mil deal.

[PHRESH]

Fixed that for you.

Bwahahahaha!!!

I would rather pick up Mora's option than sign Wagner.

[Sports Guy]

Im not talking about how good Baez is compared to Wagner, its obvious Wagner is a premium bull pen arm, but why lock up so much money on a bullpen arm? You are talking about $10-12 mill, thats more than we are paying anyone on this current team.

To be fair, only EJF is saying that and I highly doubt Wagner gets anywhere near that money this offseason.

[PaulBako]

The Orioles do not need to spend money on a closer, or in this case a 38 year old closer with injury history.