McPhail: Bullpen to require attention this offseason

[WhoRU]

SP

Bedard

Loewen

Guthrie

DCab :eek:/Penn/Olson/Liz/Burress

Cheap Vet (Clement?)

BP

Hoey

Bradford

Walker

Liz/Olson/Burress/Penn/DCab/Cherry/Leicester

I think we should sign a cheap vetern starter and let most of the young starters start in the bullpen. I Like Clement personally because of his stuff preoperation. Let the young guys build some confidence and then if Clement falters or if someone offers something decent in return then trade him and promote the best qualified. Youve got plenty of long guys this way and they al get ML ewxperience instead of beiing in AAA again.

[Sports Guy]

What young guys??? The same ones who are making 3-run deficits into 10-run deficits?

We got 3 vets last year, two are solid, one was injured... all year. We need arms beyond the guys Mazzone laughs at. What part of "Not Ready For Prime Time" don't you understand?

And what part of pissing your money away on unpredictable relievers don't you understand?

What part of we aren't going anywhere don't you understand?

We should be trading Bradford and Walker but assume they are here.

If you want to go out and sign one or 2 guys to CHEAP deals...IE 1 year contracts for less than 2 million a year, i would be ok with that(think Aaron Fultz this year).

But for the most part, it should be the kids....Hoey should definitely be in the pen.

Let guys like Olson, Burres, Penn and Liz fight it out for the rotation and the losers get the pen.

Cherry is showing he could be a good member of the pen....FCab should be here as well but needs work.

I would rather, instead of signing FAs to cheap deals, just bring in a bunch of Guthrie-like guys...Good arms, have been starters...Just dropped by their teams....Bring them all in for ST and let them fight it out.

Saying we need a closer is also a joke....Spending 7+ million a year for a closer is ridiculously stupid.

Hell, maybe even Victor Zambrano enters into this as well.

[Sports Guy]

Two established relievers may cost Angelos a little more but I think a mix of veterans and still having three spots in the pen for the young guys is a better approach.

It would be really hard on everyone - players, FO and fans - if the team just used kids and they preformed like they have the last month.

Since Aug 1:

Bradford: 10 ER in 15 IP

Walker: 8 ER in 13.2 IP

Bell: 25 ER in 22 IP

Baez: 13 ER in 15 IP

WC....Everyone has sucked the last month or so...Open your eyes.

[Baroquen131]

Agreed - tying up so much money in the bullpen last year (and losing draft picks) definitely looks like a mistake in hind-sight.

I pretty much agree with Fairfax Bird's bullpen. Hoey, Walker, Bradford are in.

Birkins hasn't looked good since his first 15 innings in May 2006. And I know some people (or it might be just the one guy) have great love for Rob Bell, but he's been incredibly inconsistent with an ERA over 7. His career stats show nothing to indicate he's going to change - just look at this year: Very good in June (2.57 ERA) and July (3.46 ERA) & horrible in August (11.05) and September (9.95). Just say no to this 30-yr old. Also, no Victors or Todds, please.

I think I'd mostly give a ST look to the multitude of young guys and see which ones have learned from it. Burress, Cherry, F. Cabrera, Leicester, Liz, Olson, or Penn.

I'm not opposed to picking up a cheap, good veteran if available, but, like that's going to happen. But sinking more major money into the bullpen definitely could be a problem because of the unreliable nature of relievers.

[33rdst]

After McPhail's comments regarding Borowski, while he was commenting after the Ray injury, I wouldn't be suprised if he went after someone like Wickman as a stop gap closer.

[LookitsPuck]

Bell and Birkins should not be on this team. Period.

[Witchy_Chick]

Two established relievers may cost Angelos a little more but I think a mix of veterans and still having three spots in the pen for the young guys is a better approach.

It would be really hard on everyone - players, FO and fans - if the team just used kids and they preformed like they have the last month.

Or how the "kids" performed last season.

Britton age 23 0-2, 3.35 ERA (after starting out like a house afire)

Rleal age 26 1-1, 4.44 ERA, 23 BBs, 19Ks, 10 HRs in 46 2/3 IP

Birkins age 25 5-2 4.94 ERA in 31 IP

Manon age 32 (why did I think he was a “kid”??) 0-1 5.40 ERA in 20 IP

E. Rodriguez age 24 1-1, 7.20 ERA in 15 IP

Hoey age 23 0-1, 10.24 ERA in 9 2/3

Abreu age 29 (again, why did I think he was a “kid”?) 0-0, 10.13 ERA in 8 IP

We went with a lot of "kids" last year, and they sucked too.

Witchy

[square634]

Or how the "kids" performed last season.

Britton age 23 0-2, 3.35 ERA (after starting out like a house afire)

Rleal age 26 1-1, 4.44 ERA, 23 BBs, 19Ks, 10 HRs in 46 2/3 IP

Birkins age 25 5-2 4.94 ERA in 31 IP

Manon age 32 (why did I think he was a “kid”??) 0-1 5.40 ERA in 20 IP

E. Rodriguez age 24 1-1, 7.20 ERA in 15 IP

Hoey age 23 0-1, 10.24 ERA in 9 2/3

Abreu age 29 (again, why did I think he was a “kid”?) 0-0, 10.13 ERA in 8 IP

We went with a lot of "kids" last year, and they sucked too.

Witchy

The trick to going with the "kids" approach is to actually have kids who young with upside. I think if we let some of our yougn starters pitch out of the pen, even in crucial situations, until injuries open spots in the rotation, our bullpen will be much improved. I'd love to see a rotation of:

Bedard

Loewen

Cabrera (only because he has proven he can eat innings)

Guthrie/good starter through trade or FA

Penn

and a bullpen of:

Bradford

Walker

Olson

Liz

Hoey

Burres (as the long man)

*addition through FA or trade

I think if Ray weren't lost for the season and could fill that last spot, this bullpen would have the potential to be lights out. Of course, this will never happen because the O's will want more "proven veterans" and not want to "ruin the development" of our young starters, but I think other teams (like the Red Sox) have shown that using a young pitcher out of the bullpen doesn't ruin him.

[wildcard]

Since Aug 1:

Bradford: 10 ER in 15 IP

Walker: 8 ER in 13.2 IP

Bell: 25 ER in 22 IP

Baez: 13 ER in 15 IP

WC....Everyone has sucked the last month or so...Open your eyes.

Read my post again. No where does it say anything about how the veterans have done in the last month.

[Sports Guy]

Read my post again. No where does it say anything about how the veterans have done in the last month.

Hence the problem with your post.

[wildcard]

Or how the "kids" performed last season.

Britton age 23 0-2, 3.35 ERA (after starting out like a house afire)

Rleal age 26 1-1, 4.44 ERA, 23 BBs, 19Ks, 10 HRs in 46 2/3 IP

Birkins age 25 5-2 4.94 ERA in 31 IP

Manon age 32 (why did I think he was a “kid”??) 0-1 5.40 ERA in 20 IP

E. Rodriguez age 24 1-1, 7.20 ERA in 15 IP

Hoey age 23 0-1, 10.24 ERA in 9 2/3

Abreu age 29 (again, why did I think he was a “kid”?) 0-0, 10.13 ERA in 8 IP

We went with a lot of "kids" last year, and they sucked too.

Witchy

I agree with the facts you wrote. I just am not sure what you are saying. Are you agreeing that a mix of veterans and kids is the right approach or are you saying there should not be any kids?

[wildcard]

Hence the problem with your post.

Hence the problem with your response.

SG, we are miles apart here. You appear to want to "blow it up" and I don't agree with the approach no matter if it is the pen or the rest of the team.

I agree that going with the kids is consistent with what you have been saying. It is just not the approach that I want to see the O's take. Nor do I expect them to take. If Bedard and Roberts are traded then your approach to the building of the pen makes sense. I do not think either of these two players will be leaving the O's this off season. Nor should they.

The O's have a great leadoff hitter and two guys that on a normal year will hit 100 RBI. They have an Ace and a #2 pitcher. These are normally the expensive parts of a winning team. They O's need to build around these parts. Their need to add at least six player this off season.

#3 starter, closer, another veteran reliever, CF, backup catcher, and probably another hitter. That is not blow it up. That is build around what you have.

The disagreement that we have on the whole team building approach is the same disagreement we have with the pen.

[Sports Guy]

Hence the problem with your response.

SG, we are miles apart here. You appear to want to "blow it up" and I don't agree with the approach no matter if it is the pen or the rest of the team.

I agree that going with the kids is consistent with what you have been saying. It is just not the approach that I want to see the O's take. Nor do I expect them to take. If Bedard and Roberts are traded then your approach to the building of the pen makes sense. I do not think either of these two players will be leaving the O's this off season. Nor should they.

The O's have a great leadoff hitter and two guys that on a normal year will hit 100 RBI. They have an Ace and a #2 pitcher. These are normally the expensive parts of a winning team. They O's need to build around these parts. Their need to add at least six player this off season.

#3 starter, closer, another veteran reliever, CF, backup catcher, and probably another hitter. That is not blow it up. That is build around what you have.

The disagreement that we have on the whole team building approach is the same disagreement we have with the pen.

Yes, the main disagreement is you see things that aren't there.

You think we are close when we are miles away.

Building around what we have is a sure way to be worse off than we are now.

Oh and we don't have a #2 starter either.

[square634]

Hence the problem with your response.

SG, we are miles apart here. You appear to want to "blow it up" and I don't agree with the approach no matter if it is the pen or the rest of the team.

I agree that going with the kids is consistent with what you have been saying. It is just not the approach that I want to see the O's take. Nor do I expect them to take. If Bedard and Roberts are traded then your approach to the building of the pen makes sense. I do not think either of these two players will be leaving the O's this off season. Nor should they.

The O's have a great leadoff hitter and two guys that on a normal year will hit 100 RBI. They have an Ace and a #2 pitcher. These are normally the expensive parts of a winning team. They O's need to build around these parts. Their need to add at least six player this off season.

#3 starter, closer, another veteran reliever, CF, backup catcher, and probably another hitter. That is not blow it up. That is build around what you have.

The disagreement that we have on the whole team building approach is the same disagreement we have with the pen.

What about third base, left field, DH, and possibly starting catcher?

[Sports Guy]

What about third base, left field, DH, and possibly starting catcher?

WC is essentially saying the Orioles should continue to do what they have been doing for the last 10 years.