McPhail: Bullpen to require attention this offseason

[bgtimber75]

Wouda, couda, shouda. A guy that was good LAST season. A guy that SHOULD have 100 RBI's. A guy that WOULD be good if he played for the first 2 months of the season. Players that have shown nothing this season that COULD mature fast.

Yeah, seems like the perfect people to build around.

[Sports Guy]

Ask yourself a question. What is a team build around? If you could build a team around a few core players, what would you start with?

How about a #1 pitcher? A leadoff guy? Two 100 RBI guys? A rookie that has shown the stuff to be a #2?

Now think of a supporting cast. How about a catcher that had 91 RBI last year and with a great arm? How about a DH that gives you 4 months at an 850 OPS but needs to be supplemented at the being of the season?

A bunch of guys that could mature fast like Hoey, Olson, Penn, Reimold. And a guy who has a 96-98 mph fastball, who is showing rapid progress, though he is not ready yet.

Blow it up? Because we traded our best August pitcher for guys that might help in the future. Because 60% of the starting rotation is on the DL. Think of what this team was in mid August before Texas came in. Now think what that team needed to be a contender.

The past month has been hard on everyone, but there are reasons we are where we are. Injuries, trade of veterans are two. Look at what this team is with Bedard, Guthrie and Loewen at the top of the rotation.

I just don't think trading Bedard, Roberts and the rest of the veterans does anything for this team. It is just saying I am feed up with what has been happening. It is not a solution. Blow it up, says I am willing be bet on unproven talent and am ok with two maybe three years of worst losing then what we have seen. I look at were the best chance to become a contender is and I don't see trading Robert and Bedard in that plan.

This is just incredible.

All i can say is i hope the Orioles don't think like you because if they do, we are done for another 3-5 years.

[wildcard]

And who's to say that Guthrie won't be another Jose Mercedes/Calvin Maduro/Bruce Chen one year wonder?

You could say that about anyone you propose to bring in the 'Blow it up" plan. You want guarantees. There are none.

How can you advocate building around Tejada? Next year at best is another strive for .500 so you're looking at Tejada to still be a stud in 2009/2010?

I stick with Tejada for one reason. I have not seen a logical proposal to replace him. Not one trade that makes any sense. He is a hard guy to trade and get equal value for. Just think what was on the table last year. Santana and Aybar. Yuk

[bgtimber75]

You could say that about anyone you propose to bring in the 'Blow it up" plan. You want guarantees. There are none.

No there is on guarantee. Age. Tejada isn't getting younger. Mora isn't getting younger. Huff isn't getting younger. Millar isn't getting younger. You're advocating building around aging stars and for a team with our financial restraints I just don't see how that's a good idea.

I stick with Tejada for one reason. I have not seen a logical proposal to replace him. Not one trade that makes any sense. He is a hard guy to trade and get equal value for. Just think what was on the table last year. Santana and Aybar. Yuk

And we'll get even less for him next year and the year after.

[wildcard]

No there is on guarantee. Age. Tejada isn't getting younger. Mora isn't getting younger. Huff isn't getting younger. Millar isn't getting younger. You're advocating building around aging stars and for a team with our financial restraints I just don't see how that's a good idea.

No, build around Bedard, Markakis, Roberts, and Guthrie.

[bgtimber75]

No, build around Bedard, Markakis, Roberts, and Guthrie.

You're rebuilding players are getting much thiner now.

I have no problem rebuilding around the players you mention (save for maybe Roberts) but to build around them we need pieces. The only way to get those pieces involves trading off players such as Tejada.

I haven't seen one person suggest trading Markakis. Most want Bedard extended and if not kept around until at least next July. Guthrie I have absolutely no problem keeping as he cost nothing and is still a young guy.

[Sports Guy]

No, build around Bedard, Markakis, Roberts, and Guthrie.

You do know that Bedard and BRob may be gone in 2 years right?

You are also aware that for more than half of his starts this year, that Guthrie has been a 4/5 starter and his minor league career suggests that is best case scenario, right?

[TonySoprano]

You are also aware that for more than half of his starts this year, that Guthrie has been a 4/5 starter and his minor league career suggests that is best case scenario, right?

You do know you're wrong, don't you? In fourteen out of twenty-five starts, he pitched to an ERA of 3.0 or less for the game. His ERA was less than 4.00 in sixteen starts.

[Sports Guy]

You do know you're wrong, don't you? In fourteen out of twenty-five starts, he pitched to an ERA of 3.0 or less for the game. His ERA was less than 4.00 in sixteen starts.

Good point...Should have said his second half of the season.

Of course, we said the same thing about Rodrigo a few years ago.

[TonySoprano]

Good point...Should have said his second half of the season.

Of course, we said the same thing about Rodrigo a few years ago.

In his first twelve starts, Guthrie had an ERA of 1.936. He followed that with an ERA of 4.95 in his last thirteen starts. So far so good for SG, right? Not so fast. He had three really bad starts (Jul 12, Aug 8, Aug 13) which significantly inflated the numbers for the "second half." Take away those three starts, and his "second half" ERA was 3.66. Furthermore, in his other twenty-two starts, not including those three, Guthrie pitched to an ERA of 2.68. That's some fluke season alright:rolleyes:

[mweb]

I would like to thank you and SG for crawling into Mazzone's brain and figuring out what he meant instead of what he said. It is amazing to think that you can just ignore what he said and just make it up as you go along.

I think it's pretty clear what Mazzone is saying, and it's not what you're trying to make it out to be. Who knows though, you rip them for crawling into his brain, but you did the same thing, and now I am too.

But regardless of that, look at what Guthrie has done after the great start, can you honestly say we have a #2 starter for next year?

We always seem to expect most or everyone on the team to be as good or better than their past results, but every year guys underperform expectations. We need a team good enough to contend even if a few key guys tank. It would be very difficult to accomplish that.

[wildcard]

I think it's pretty clear what Mazzone is saying, and it's not what you're trying to make it out to be. Who knows though, you rip them for crawling into his brain, but you did the same thing, and now I am too.

But regardless of that, look at what Guthrie has done after the great start, can you honestly say we have a #2 starter for next year?

We always seem to expect most or everyone on the team to be as good or better than their past results, but every year guys underperform expectations. We need a team good enough to contend even if a few key guys tank. It would be very difficult to accomplish that.

Yea, I already said I messed up on the Mazzone quote. Guess I will have to put it in blood.

Guthrie has the stuff, and background to repeat. I know it took him a little while in the minors to get it, but he did get. This is the second year in a row he has done well.

As far as the O's getting more depth, I have always be for that. That is what "finish the job" means in my signature. They do seem to have some more young guys with talent on the roster. Now if their will just take their success in the minors and make it work for them in the majors.

[Sports Guy]

In his first twelve starts, Guthrie had an ERA of 1.936. He followed that with an ERA of 4.95 in his last thirteen starts. So far so good for SG, right? Not so fast. He had three really bad starts (Jul 12, Aug 8, Aug 13) which significantly inflated the numbers for the "second half." Take away those three starts, and his "second half" ERA was 3.66. Furthermore, in his other twenty-two starts, not including those three, Guthrie pitched to an ERA of 2.68. That's some fluke season alright:rolleyes:

Tony..>Everytime you do this, all you do is focus on his ERA.

If you haven't guessed by now, i focus a lot more than just that...The HR rate, gb/fb ratio, command rate and rising BB rate is a much bigger key than his ERA.

However, over 14 starts, his ERA was still almost 5...You can pick and choose whatever you want.

[mweb]

Yea, I already said I messed up on the Mazzone quote. Guess I will have to put it in blood.

Guthrie has the stuff, and background to repeat. I know it took him a little while in the minors to get it, but he did get. This is the second year in a row he has done well.

As far as the O's getting more depth, I have always be for that. That is what "finish the job" means in my signature. They do seem to have some more young guys with talent on the roster. Now if their will just take their success in the minors and make it work for them in the majors.

Some people respond to posts before finishing reading the thread, I would be one of them.

Guthrie has a 5.00 ERA since the AS break. I think he can be solid, but I really don't understand how anyone can count on the guy to be a #2 caliber starter.

I'm not really talking about more depth, I'm talking about getting as much talent as the Sox and Yanks have, because without that, we're put in a situation where we need almost everyone to match or exceed expectations. We're very far from achieving that. Those teams have had their share of injuries and disappointments as well, but they're still leaps and bounds better than us.

[TonySoprano]

Tony..>Everytime you do this, all you do is focus on his ERA.

If you haven't guessed by now, i focus a lot more than just that...The HR rate, gb/fb ratio, command rate and rising BB rate is a much bigger key than his ERA.

However, over 14 starts, his ERA was still almost 5...You can pick and choose whatever you want.

I'll stick with my numbers over 22 starts out of 25 (that's 88%); you choose 14.