Dice-K didn't make it through 5 in the ALCS.

[Chollie Eckman]

Yes, there's no way anyone can infer that you had bad intentions starting this thread.

Those were responses to posts that had fangs. I would expect the same if I went after someone. Unfortunately, too many new posters get run off by the likes of you and your ilk who DARE to disagree with you or post something somewhat controversial that goes against the collective grain. I don't mind tweaking the stat boys. They don't intimidate me and they aren't infallible.

I'm right about Dice man. Some people just can't accept that.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Those were responses to posts that had fangs. I would expect the same if I went after someone. Unfortunately, too many new posters get run off by the likes of you and your ilk who DARE to disagree with you or post something somewhat controversial that goes against the collective grain. I don't mind tweaking the stat boys. They don't intimidate me and they aren't infallible.

I'm right about Dice man. Some people just can't accept that.

I agree he makes too much money! I've said that once in this thread already! I take exception to the fact that your past posts indicate that your anti-Dice stance is based mostly on the fact that he is Asian.

Nobody seems to be disagreeing that the Red Sox invested too much money in him for the production he gave THIS YEAR. However, people aren't willing to write him off yet (which is their right).

Also, the notion that one playoff game can determine his worth is silly and I'd say that to someone with 5 posts or 5,000.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Those were responses to posts that had fangs. I would expect the same if I went after someone. Unfortunately, too many new posters get run off by the likes of you and your ilk who DARE to disagree with you or post something somewhat controversial that goes against the collective grain. I don't mind tweaking the stat boys. They don't intimidate me and they aren't infallible.

I'm right about Dice man. Some people just can't accept that.

Actually the first quote was your first post in this thread.

[Chollie Eckman]

Actually the first quote was your first post in this thread.

I'd come to expect it from some. Didn't expect the level of vitriol from others.

[AgentOrange]

No one is dismissing it...You said he is making 20 million a year...YOU ARE WRONG!

He isn't making nearly that much...That money is not part of his salary.

Yeah, I think it is sad that they paid more for Dice than most teams paid out in salary this year.

Hey, it happens. We will see how he develops, he is still young, but you have to wonder if pitching on 5 days as opposed to once a week hurt him over here. I don't think he pitched to expectations this year, but there is still time.

[Chollie Eckman]

I agree he makes too much money! I've said that once in this thread already! I take exception to the fact that your past posts indicate that your anti-Dice stance is based mostly on the fact that he is Asian.

Nobody seems to be disagreeing that the Red Sox invested too much money in him for the production he gave THIS YEAR. However, people aren't willing to write him off yet (which is their right).

Also, the notion that one playoff game can determine his worth is silly and I'd say that to someone with 5 posts or 5,000.

This is an outright lie. Unless you have proof and can back it up don't say it. It makes you look angry and beaten.

[Pedro Cerrano]

This is an outright lie. Unless you have proof and can back it up don't say it. It makes you look angry and beaten.

You're right, I pulled that statement out of thin air. I think we've had this debate before on another thread where I stated that the past thread has already been deleted that implicates you.

Either way, I'm done with you, I can't reason with you at all.

[ledzepp8]

He doesn't make $20M per year. He costs the Red Sox an average of $20M per year. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

ZOMG, you all are talking semantics. Chollie's point was that he is costing the Red Sox 20 million a year more or less if you average the posting fee over the length of the contract. He's saying he hasn't been worth that money yet and I'm not real sure why he's getting bashed for that opinion.

[DrungoHazewood]

ZOMG, you all are talking semantics. Chollie's point was that he is costing the Red Sox 20 million a year more or less if you average the posting fee over the length of the contract. He's saying he hasn't been worth that money yet and I'm not real sure why he's getting bashed for that opinion.

He's being taken to task for his year-long obsession with declaring Matsuzaka a total failure. He was making many of the same arguments before the man had thrown a single pitch in the major leagues. He's being taken to task for asking people to flame him. He's being "bashed" for explicitly stating that anyone who thinks Matsuzaka was a valuable signing is a closet Red Sox fan.

If you want an analysis of Matsuzaka's salary + posting fee, that's fairly easy to justify. He was worth about 6.5 wins over replacement, which on the open market would cost something on the order of $12M-$15M a year. Throw in the fact that he's a unique player with a big following, and that he's helping to spread the insidious Red Sox Nation around the globe I think it's pretty rational to say he's worth a $5M bonus on top of his performance.

You can also look at from another perspective: The Sox were in that mid-80s win range where a free agent can be especially valuable, considering a small change in wins means a huge change in revenues from making the playoffs. Matsuzaka was worth more to the Red Sox than almost any other team because of their position.

[Sports Guy]

ZOMG, you all are talking semantics. Chollie's point was that he is costing the Red Sox 20 million a year more or less if you average the posting fee over the length of the contract. He's saying he hasn't been worth that money yet and I'm not real sure why he's getting bashed for that opinion.

There is a huge difference between the Red Sox paying 20 million a year for his services and DiceK making 20 million a year.

For his salary, he has was fine this year.

For what the Red Sox paid, he didn't perform to expectations.

However, if he wins game 7 and pitches well in the WS and the Red Sox win, he will have been worth the money.

[RVAbird]

He's being taken to task for his year-long obsession with declaring Matsuzaka a total failure. He was making many of the same arguments before the man had thrown a single pitch in the major leagues. He's being taken to task for asking people to flame him. He's being "bashed" for explicitly stating that anyone who thinks Matsuzaka was a valuable signing is a closet Red Sox fan.

If you want an analysis of Matsuzaka's salary + posting fee, that's fairly easy to justify. He was worth about 6.5 wins over replacement, which on the open market would cost something on the order of $12M-$15M a year. Throw in the fact that he's a unique player with a big following, and that he's helping to spread the insidious Red Sox Nation around the globe I think it's pretty rational to say he's worth a $5M bonus on top of his performance.

You can also look at from another perspective: The Sox were in that mid-80s win range where a free agent can be especially valuable, considering a small change in wins means a huge change in revenues from making the playoffs. Matsuzaka was worth more to the Red Sox than almost any other team because of their position.

This part is huge IMO. As far as marginal wins go Matsuzaka was a huge need for the Sox and has already paid off pretty well and will likely continue to do so.

[Leitch]

Matsuzaka helped put them in the playoffs and that alone will probably pay for at least half of that posting fee right off the bat. The contract itself is actually quite good.

[Chollie Eckman]

He's being taken to task for his year-long obsession with declaring Matsuzaka a total failure. He was making many of the same arguments before the man had thrown a single pitch in the major leagues. He's being taken to task for asking people to flame him. He's being "bashed" for explicitly stating that anyone who thinks Matsuzaka was a valuable signing is a closet Red Sox fan.

Your blind defense of Matsuzaka really has no bounds. Face it Drungo. He was an average pitcher on a good team. That's all. Unfortunately, when someone disagrees with you you come at them tooth and nail. Since you won't let it die neither will I. Thus, Chollie strikes another blow to the infalability of Drungo. What's wrong with questioning a players ability who hadn't thrown a pitch in the majors, but was anointed by the national media(and defended by you no less)Cy Young winner, league MVP, and first ballot Hall of Famer? Remember that?

The vehement defense of this free agent signing(and only this free agent signing I might add) by a select few is quite curious. Why is that? Is it indeed a fact that there are closet Red Sox fans among us?

Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!

[Pedro Cerrano]

Your blind defense of Matsuzaka really has no bounds. Face it Drungo. He was an average pitcher on a good team. That's all. Unfortunately, when someone disagrees with you you come at them tooth and nail. Since you won't let it die neither will I. Thus, Chollie strikes another blow to the infalability of Drungo. What's wrong with questioning a players ability who hadn't thrown a pitch in the majors, but was anointed by the national media(and defended by you no less)Cy Young winner, league MVP, and first ballot Hall of Famer? Remember that?

The vehement defense of this free agent signing(and only this free agent signing I might add) by a select few is quite curious. Why is that? Is it indeed a fact that there are closet Red Sox fans among us?

Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!

Was Matsuzaka or Zito a worse signing?

[Sports Guy]

Your blind defense of Matsuzaka really has no bounds. Face it Drungo. He was an average pitcher on a good team. That's all. Unfortunately, when someone disagrees with you you come at them tooth and nail. Since you won't let it die neither will I. Thus, Chollie strikes another blow to the infalability of Drungo. What's wrong with questioning a players ability who hadn't thrown a pitch in the majors, but was anointed by the national media(and defended by you no less)Cy Young winner, league MVP, and first ballot Hall of Famer? Remember that?

The vehement defense of this free agent signing(and only this free agent signing I might add) by a select few is quite curious. Why is that? Is it indeed a fact that there are closet Red Sox fans among us?

Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!

You should stop while you are behind.

You argument has been blow to smithereens in this thread and now all you are doing is trolling and making yourself look worse.