Dice-K didn't make it through 5 in the ALCS.

[byrdz]

The Zito contract was worse simply because the Red Sox were smart and got a Japanese player of the same caliber, everyone knows the benefits to this, mainly cost. Although, I think Zito outperforms DiceK over the long haul based mostly on his success pitching against AL teams. He's more proven in the toughest division of the toughest league.

So, if money is no object then I would go with Zito and give him his insane contract. Not that I think DiceK will fail next season and beyond, that season will be very telling. If he has a bounce back year like Beckett then maybe the Red Sox got one heck of a deal. If not, then the Giants have a proven ML starter that will more than likely bounce back as he's done before with Oakland.

Then, I think a thread of this sort will have a different tone.

[Sports Guy]

Admit it. It was more luck than anything. They wanted Beckett and didn't want Lowell, but had to take him. Geez the guy batted over .325 this year. His first time over .300 in his career. Who does he think he is Barry Bonds?

Luck? Lowell was an AS i believe in Florida..He had one bad year on a team that has payroll issues...so they dumped him.

BTW, if you think any ML team is actually losing money(especially Boston and NY), i have some swamp land to sell you.

[DREKTUNES]

Luck? Lowell was an AS i believe in Florida..He had one bad year on a team that has payroll issues...so they dumped him.

BTW, if you think any ML team is actually losing money(especially Boston and NY), i have some swamp land to sell you.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3064537

Boston and NY are doing better than fine. I know that's not English. I'm ok with that.

And I think Dice-K will be fine, next year. He'll probably adjust (not unlike Beckett), and be the solid #3 he really is.

[Tank]

Actually this debate is months old.

Yes, I've noticed that since I read pretty much every thread on the message board, thank you. I hate the Red Sox, but Dice-K could still turn out to be a good deal for them.

As for Lowell, he was a good player that had a bad year for a bad team. He got traded to a perennial playoff contender, maybe that rejuvenated him a little bit. Maybe Fenway Park is a perfect fit for his hitting abilities. Maybe I'm a closet Red Sox fan , but no, I'm not.

[Chollie Eckman]

Luck? Lowell was an AS i believe in Florida..He had one bad year on a team that has payroll issues...so they dumped him.

Are you attributing the Lowell transaction success more to the unparalleled skill of the RS FO or luck? I say luck. Everyone in baseball didn't want him and his bloated contract.

[Chollie Eckman]

If he pitches for the Red Sox in game 7 of this series will Red Sox Nation be as optimistic as some posters here? That's a good question isn't it?

[ledzepp8]

For example, if you say that the Sox were smart in trading for Mike Lowell you're part of an evil cabal. Pretty simple, really.

Let's be fair here, were the Red Sox smart for trading for Mike Lowell or were they fortunate to get the results they have?

Edit: Sorry didn't see that Chollie had already basically said the same thing.

[byrdz]

Are you attributing the Lowell transaction success more to the unparalleled skill of the RS FO or luck? I say luck. Everyone in baseball didn't want him and his bloated contract.

In this article he says that it could have been the environment (Sox fans passion) that helped him and that he was being impatient that bad year of his. Since we all know that the Sox preach patience at the plate, I think he couldn't be in a better place to revive his career which has proven to do just that. He also has had bouts with cancer, maybe unrelated to 2004.

[mweb]

Let's be fair here, were the Red Sox smart for trading for Mike Lowell or were they fortunate to get the results they have?

Edit: Sorry didn't see that Chollie had already basically said the same thing.

Why can't it be both? And Beckett was obviously the key to that trade.

[ledzepp8]

You don't consider that the Sox scouted Lowell, thought they knew what was wrong with him in his one off year, thought he could fix it, and took a chance? Isn't that just as likely as assigning 100% of the credit to dumb luck?

Are you trying to argue that the Red Sox traded for Lowell for any other reason than it being a requirement in order to get Beckett?

[ledzepp8]

Why can't it be both? And Beckett was obviously the key to that trade.

It can't be both because they only took him because they had to.

If we traded Tejada and threw in Kurt Birkins to the Red Sox and Birkins suddenly became an All Star pitcher, would the Sox be smart for trading for Birkins?

[DrungoHazewood]

I think it was Forbes that said that they actually lost money last year. So did the Yankees. They were the only two. That was before the Drew, Matsuzaka, and Lugo signings and Beckett's deal kicking in. John Henry's hedge fund business was doing a lot better last year too. Not so good now. Just another reason to root against them.

Lost money in the baseball sense. They transferred enough money to related companies and did enough accounting tricks to avoid taxes and limit their revenue sharing payments. MASN and the Sox recently sold for, what, $750M? They're not losing money in any real sense and the value of the team and associated companies is skyrocketing.

[BostonFan]

Lowell was an add-in to the Beckett trade. But I feel the Sox knew they wanted him. They made the trade just after Thanksgiving of '05. By then, I'm sure the Sox FO knew they wouldn't be retaining Kevin Millar, and Bill Mueller's injury history was a huge red flag. With absolutely no good 3rd basemen down on the farm, it was smart for them to have him thrown into a Beckett deal, in order to move Youkilis to 1st base full time.

[mweb]

It can't be both because they only took him because they had to.

If we traded Tejada and threw in Kurt Birkins to the Red Sox and Birkins suddenly became an All Star pitcher, would the Sox be smart for trading for Birkins?

They didn't have to. He was obviously a bigger part of the trade in terms of talent and salary than Birkins would be, they could have looked elsewhere for a SP, or tried to workout something different with the Marlins. They likely thought Lowell would bounce back, so that influenced their decision.

So they were smart to take the risk on an all star caliber playing coming off a down year, but fortunate that he's been as good as he's been.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Here let me ask the group. How many of you got a certain glee by hearing the primordial screams from the Boston fans after every single run-scoring hit in extra innings Saturday night?

I surely did. BTW, my glee was extended last night when Lofton hit that homer and then Dice-K didn't make it out of the 5th.

I also have some despair seeing die hard O's fans defending that signing with every fiber of their being.

I was ecstatic when I turned the game back on (after turning it off temporarally after the ninth to do some other stuff) and saw the Red Sox already down by four (and eventually three more).

However, that has nothing to do with what you are suggesting, which is that it was a bad signing. That is a point that can be argued, with his 4.40 ERA and 1.32 WHIP among other things.

However, you don't want to do that. You want to belittle those who disagree with you (which I'm sure you will do to me for pointing this out, despite essentially agreeing with you on this), and refuse to argue with any semblance of a point.

I hate to dump a cliched Adam Sandler movie quote on you, but, "I award you no points and my God have mercy on your soul."