Zaaaaaaaach !!!

[JTrea81]

Look, just leave this thread...As usual, you are being dominated in this thread..Your thoughts have been proven wrong and now you are being very inconsistent with the thoughts you have had over the years in terms of payroll, etc...

You aren't answering people's posts because you know you can't do it and support your poor argument at the same time.

Just save some face, admit you were wrong and move on.

Was Billy Beane wrong for starting Anderson and Cahill in the A's rotation during 2009 instead of keeping them down for service time issues?

[glorydays]

Agreed. So perhaps we all can refocus on the latest Britton article. So far, F ROBBY has been the only one to comment on it. Even if you want to say, "OFFNY, that article is boring, it tells me nothing new, and thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life, you Yankee SOB," that would be better than the merry-go-round that everyone is on with with J TREA.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-zach-britton-0323-20110322,0,1552077,full.story

Did anyone else catch the game on ESPN yesterday? Ravich and Co. were very high on Britton, though I didn't think he looked especially sharp. The quotes from the Yanks are intriguing, but I wonder how many times they are asked about the opposing young pitcher during spring training and say the same thing.

IMO he had a Bedard look to him.

He is pretty much as-advertised. I saw him last year, and I saw him the year before that," MacPhail said. "So he has been someone that's been on our radarscope, albeit quietly, when a lot of guys were getting ballyhooed and we sort of kept our mouths shut. But eventually, he became known and has received a fair among of attention.

What interested me most about the article is the AM quote above and bold. People are quick to point out that the O's seem to praise their young talent above what their value is and here we have a GM who says they intentionally kept quiet about a person they knew had a great potential. Makes me wonder who they are staying hush about now.

[AgentOrange]

Was Billy Beane wrong for starting Anderson and Cahill in the A's rotation during 2009 instead of keeping them down for service time issues?

What has Beane done over the last 5 years to warrant that level of respect?

More importantly, what were the other options available to him?

Because we have a few other options

[Sports Guy]

Was Billy Beane wrong for starting Anderson and Cahill in the A's rotation during 2009 instead of keeping them down for service time issues?

Yes he was.

The only argument I can see for doing this is if you are a contender or you literally have no one else to go to as that starter because of injury or lack of depth.

But generally speaking, yes he was wrong...He should have waited a few weeks.

[glorydays]

Was Billy Beane wrong for starting Anderson and Cahill in the A's rotation during 2009 instead of keeping them down for service time issues?

Brett Anderson's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.01 ERA 1.37 WHIP

Trevor Cahill's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.40ERA 1.68 WHIP

Now, let me ask you, do YOU think the A's would rather NOW have the extra year of service time or do you think they are happy with the results they got in April 2009?

[glorydays]

Brett Anderson's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.01 ERA 1.37 WHIP

Trevor Cahill's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.40ERA 1.68 WHIP

Now, let me ask you, do YOU think the A's would rather NOW have the extra year of service time or do you think they are happy with the results they got in April 2009?

BTW - while you are busy ignoring can we use these stats as proof to show that Britton isn't an automatic W in April if he makes the big league club as you seem to think?

[Stotle]

Well if this team is truly at a payroll disadvantage, when the big bats start getting expensive to retain, it's the experienced hitting that you'll want your money tied up in, not older pitching.

Look at Josh Beckett and Carlos Zambrano for example.

That's not to say that we shouldn't sign FA pitching, however, there's no way we are going to want to have all our money tied up into Matusz, Britton and whoever else in the rotation in 2017 if we want to stay competitive.

If you want to trade him, you will get a much more substantial package for the extra year of control. Britton at age 27 with 2 years of control is worth a whole lot more than Britton at age 27 with 1 year of control (I didn't check the actual ages, but the logic is what is important).

[Frobby]

Brett Anderson's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.01 ERA 1.37 WHIP

Trevor Cahill's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.40ERA 1.68 WHIP

Now, let me ask you, do YOU think the A's would rather NOW have the extra year of service time or do you think they are happy with the results they got in April 2009?

Counterargument: you could say that Anderson and Cahill (or anyone else) would have struggled at first whenever they came up, and bringing them up early just allowed them to get to the point where they were comfortable a few weeks earlier than if their debuts had been delayed.

I just think 3 starts vs. 32 is pretty much the end of the analysis no matter what happens in the 3 starts, with the rare exception of when those three starts actually affected who made the playoffs or didn't. The odds of that happening to the 2011 Orioles are miniscule.

[Arthur_Bryant]

What interested me most about the article is the AM quote above and bold. People are quick to point out that the O's seem to praise their young talent above what their value is and here we have a GM who says they intentionally kept quiet about a person they knew had a great potential. Makes me wonder who they are staying hush about now.

I think the Wieters experience has influenced their handling of Britton. The truth is that there's not much to gain from hyping prospects. They did get a short-lived attendance boost from Wieters, but he was an extraordinary case, and in any event it didn't last long. But it's just that much tougher on the player.

Re: the bolded, I don't think there are any true surprises laying in the weeds that we on OH aren't already aware of. I guess Joe Mahoney is the closest to a guy who conceivably could burst onto the MLB scene this year, seemingly out of nowhere--and he's not really in that class and not even really a surprise, having now been through the big league camp. And if it happened, it might be a surprise to the average fan, but certainly not to anyone spends time on OH.

There aren't any realistic MiL surprises for anyone who reads OH. Tony and the minor league reporters do a really good job of staying on top of these things, and any player on the threshold of MLB will have been on the radar screen here for a while.

[JTrea81]

What has Beane done over the last 5 years to warrant that level of respect?

More importantly, what were the other options available to him?

Because we have a few other options

But is Britton our best option?

I think he is.

If this season is truly about winning as many games as we can, you need to put the best players that you have on the field.

Who gives the Orioles a better chance to win - Zach Britton, Chris Tillman or Brad Bergesen?

I can see keeping players down when you aren't trying to win or if you have players already that are better in their spot, but the rebuilding is done and Britton is one of the best pitchers the Orioles have.

Also Britton's comments about potentially getting sent down for service time only issues are telling. He's pitched the best he can pitch, so it might upset him and cause him to pitch poorly if the Orioles demote him despite his performance. And then you might never extend him if you want to anyway.

It just sends a wrong message to everybody no matter how you look at it.

The A's started Cahill and Anderson in the rotation because they earned their spots. The Tigers started Porcello because he earned his spot. Britton has earned his spot and deserves to start over the other options the Orioles may have.

The Orioles under MacPhail have never had a player that has earned a spot in ST start there if they have options or service time issues. Every "competition" has been a farce. It's time to make that competition truly matter.

[Bradysburns]

My pitch ID could be off, but I believe the "meat" pitch you saw was his mushy slider. He got away with it a couple of times to RHB, up in the zone without much break. I think you are correct: hitters were looking for something else, or it would have been crushed.

The change is a little slower and has nice screwball action, breaking down and away from RHB--I think it must be a circle change. He struck out Montero with it on Montero's 2nd AB.

It very well could have been the slider - and if so, it appeared a little dangerous in terms of command and movement. That would seem to jibe with the reservations I'm hearing from you, I believe, and scouting reports on that slider.

This is just a fan's opinion (in my case) but regardless... nobody hit the thing because everything else was so darned nasty and hard. I honestly think he could come up and win 15-plus games this season... even if they hold him off till April 20. :clap3:

[Sports Guy]

But is Britton our best option?

I think he is.

If this season is truly about winning as many games as we can, you need to put the best players that you have on the field.

Who gives the Orioles a better chance to win - Zach Britton, Chris Tillman or Brad Bergesen?

I can see keeping players down when you aren't trying to win or if you have players already that are better in their spot, but the rebuilding is done and Britton is one of the best pitchers the Orioles have.

Also Britton's comments about potentially getting sent down for service time only issues are telling. He's pitched the best he can pitch, so it might upset him and cause him to pitch poorly if the Orioles demote him despite his performance. And then you might never extend him if you want to anyway.

It just sends a wrong message to everybody no matter how you look at it.

The A's started Cahill and Anderson in the rotation because they earned their spots. The Tigers started Porcello because he earned his spot. Britton has earned his spot and deserves to start over the other options the Orioles may have.

The Orioles under MacPhail have never had a player that has earned a spot in ST start there if they have options or service time issues. Every "competition" has been a farce. It's time to make that competition truly matter.

For 2 starts? That's called a toss up.

For 2 starts, Ryan Drese may give us the better starts.

[Bradysburns]

Brett Anderson's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.01 ERA 1.37 WHIP

Trevor Cahill's first 4 starts in April 2009: 0-2 5.40ERA 1.68 WHIP

Now, let me ask you, do YOU think the A's would rather NOW have the extra year of service time or do you think they are happy with the results they got in April 2009?

Your question is valid in terms of immediate wins. And I'm on the "send him down to AAA" bus at this point, although that's a change from my intial preference. (Once again, I have been swayed by the smarter baseball minds on this board... )

But... Here's the thing. Cahill and Anderson perhaps had to have a couple rough outings. They needed to get those outings out of their system, calm the jitters, etc. So instead of looking at them as losses, you could look at them as necessary steps in transitioning a typical AAA pitcher to the majors.

If that's the case, the devil's advocate stance could be: If you want him to start winning after April 20, you better bring him north now. Because his first two outings are likely to be rough affairs, whether they start right away, or after the 20th.

[glorydays]

But is Britton our best option?

I think he is.

If this season is truly about winning as many games as we can, you need to put the best players that you have on the field.

Who gives the Orioles a better chance to win - Zach Britton, Chris Tillman or Brad Bergesen?

I can see keeping players down when you aren't trying to win or if you have players already that are better in their spot, but the rebuilding is done and Britton is one of the best pitchers the Orioles have.

Also Britton's comments about potentially getting sent down for service time only issues are telling. He's pitched the best he can pitch, so it might upset him and cause him to pitch poorly if the Orioles demote him despite his performance. And then you might never extend him if you want to anyway.

It just sends a wrong message to everybody no matter how you look at it.

The A's started Cahill and Anderson in the rotation because they earned their spots. The Tigers started Porcello because he earned his spot. Britton has earned his spot and deserves to start over the other options the Orioles may have.

The Orioles under MacPhail have never had a player that has earned a spot in ST start there if they have options or service time issues. Every "competition" has been a farce. It's time to make that competition truly matter.

When did they earn their spots, spring training? Cahill pitched to a 5.40 ERA and Anderson had a 2.83 ERA in 2009's ST. Anderson pitched well - but it certainly wouldn't be anything that any one of us would say - WOW... that guy better be on the roster on OD.

[Crazysilver03]

Also Britton's comments about potentially getting sent down for service time only issues are telling. He's pitched the best he can pitch, so it might upset him and cause him to pitch poorly if the Orioles demote him despite his performance. And then you might never extend him if you want to anyway.

It just sends a wrong message to everybody no matter how you look at it.

The A's started Cahill and Anderson in the rotation because they earned their spots. The Tigers started Porcello because he earned his spot. Britton has earned his spot and deserves to start over the other options the Orioles may have.

The Orioles under MacPhail have never had a player that has earned a spot in ST start there if they have options or service time issues. Every "competition" has been a farce. It's time to make that competition truly matter.

I don't know what comments Britton made that you read, but I watched his interview during the game yesterday and he seemed understanding if he had to go back to Norfolk. And I doubt he would pout and pitch poorly because he gets sent down. He has his head on straight. He would force the Orioles' hand.

You mention that Tillman needs to work on his secondary pitches, well so does Britton.

The A's didn't have equal or better options than Cahill or Anderson. Tillman is an equal option to Britton. And Porcello was great his rookie season, but faltered in subsequent seasons and was later demoted.