Zaaaaaaaach !!!

[Moose Milligan]

Unless you're down to the wire on the last week of the season, 2-3 starts aren't going to make a difference.

[OFFNY]

While the debate about Britton's service time is interesting, there is the very real possibility that we could lock him up a couple of years before he becomes eligible for free agency, like we did with Nick Markakis. If Zach turns out to be a stud in 2012, 2013, and 2014, the Orioles will have to at least try to lock Zach up with an attractive offer to avoid the free agency aspect.

In the early 90's, Cleveland Indians' general manager John Hart used this "lock-up" method with a good number of their promosing young players ........ players that were either flourishing at AA and AAA, or were already starting to shine in the majors. Essentially, it is/was a compromise ........ they made a commmitment to the players by offering them multi-year deals well over the minimum salary ........ and the player made a commitment to the franchise, by agreeing to sign for "extra money up front" for several years, but at the same time, risk the possibility that they may have great seasons that would warrant more money in arbitration (but they would not get, because they signed the multi-year contracts). This resulted in the Indians making it to the World Series 2 times in 3 years after not having gone to the Series in over 40 years, since 1954. Yes, there were other factors that contributed to the Indians unprecedented success at the time, but this certainly was a major factor.

I'm not sure if Britton and/or the other future Oriole stars (and their agents) would be willing to go this route (ala Markakis and the aforementioned Indians of the 90's), but it certainly is worth a try. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[JTrea81]

So if Britton makes the team, shouldnt you be arguing for him to be the #4 starter so he can get as many starts as possible?

As Frobby has pointed out, you make it seem that the Orioles will win those 2-3 starts that Britton makes and will lose them if someone else is pitching.

And if our #5 starter is the losing streak stopper, than we have other issues going on.

I've already said he'd be my #3.

[Crazysilver03]

Let's put it this way.

How many heralded MLB prospects have stayed elite as they were in their rookie year past 5 seasons?

How do we know he will be elite this season? That is a pretty big assumption you are making.

[JTrea81]

Unless you're down to the wire on the last week of the season, 2-3 starts aren't going to make a difference.

And say for some reason we are there.

Will that extra year of service time be worth the loss of a playoff appearance?

The Orioles need to start thinking that every win matters and they can't give up any from now on.

If you want to change the culture, you've got to stop worrying about things like service time and start thinking about winning now.

[DrungoHazewood]

And what are the odds we'll want Britton for that extra year vs. those two wins making or breaking a start of a season?

I'd say at least 95-5.

And you keep acting like those are two or three guaranteed wins. In 1966 the Dodgers lost 12 games Sandy Koufax started, and in 2008 the O's won three of eight games Adam Eaton started. There's a good chance Britton's presence for those three games will have no measurable impact on the 2011 Orioles.

[DrungoHazewood]

And say for some reason we are there.

Will that extra year of service time be worth the loss of a playoff appearance?

The Orioles need to start thinking that every win matters and they can't give up any from now on.

If you want to change the culture, you've got to stop worrying about things like service time and start thinking about winning now.

If you want an 83-win season right now and don't care at all about long-term contention you need to start trading a fraction of a win in 2011 for a full year of a potential star.

[JTrea81]

How do we know he will be elite this season? That is a pretty big assumption you are making.

Look at how he's performed vs. the best.

He's faced the Yankees twice now and allowed 1 ER in 8 plus innings.

His GB is ridiculous, the best on the staff by far, and that is extremely important in a park that has no room for mistakes.

[DrungoHazewood]

Let's put it this way.

How many heralded MLB prospects have stayed elite as they were in their rookie year past 5 seasons?

I give you Oakland's Big Three - Tim Hudson, Barry Zito and Mark Mulder.

Zito - last good year at age 28, best year age 24

Mulder - done at age 27, best year age 23

Hudson - still effective though injured ages 32-33, best year at age 24

Most pitchers simply don't have a long shelf life. Team control is pretty meaningless as you likely want them gone by the time the 5th year rolls around.

Since 1995 there have been 151 pitchers who put up an ERA+ of at least 100 in the 6th through 10th seasons of their careers (min 300 innings). 60 who had an ERA+ of at least 120 in their 6th-10th seasons.

That's just in the last 15 years.

So, to answer your question, LOTS.

[Crazysilver03]

Look at how he's performed vs. the best.

He's faced the Yankees twice now and allowed 1 ER in 8 plus innings.

His GB is ridiculous, the best on the staff by far, and that is extremely important in a park that has no room for mistakes.

Oh yes, because he has truly faced a Yankees line-up. Today he had Swisher and Teixeira. The first time he had Rodriguez, Cano, Jeter, and Teixeria.

Britton hasn't faced Granderson, Jeter, ARod, Posada, Gardner, Cano, Teixeira, Swisher, and Martin.

You are worried about hypotheticals when you can't even truly gauge the realities.

[Hank Scorpio]

Look at how he's performed vs. the best.

He's faced the Yankees twice now and allowed 1 ER in 8 plus innings.

His GB is ridiculous, the best on the staff by far, and that is extremely important in a park that has no room for mistakes.

You're in mid-season form with your hyperbole, huh?

[DrungoHazewood]

Look at how he's performed vs. the best.

He's faced the Yankees twice now and allowed 1 ER in 8 plus innings.

His GB is ridiculous, the best on the staff by far, and that is extremely important in a park that has no room for mistakes.

In 2008 one Christopher Myron Waters, he of the 5.70 ERA in Norfolk, threw 8 innings of one-hit ball against the 100-win Angels.

It's astonishing they haven't had Mr. Waters pose for his plaque in Cooperstown yet.

[Sports Guy]

Of all the irrational thoughts Jtrea has had, this has to be the most irrational.

To actually believe that a few starts is worth more than an extra year of service time is mind boggling.

That extra year means a lot in terms of money, service time and potential trade value.

These things can't be ignored. The fact is that this is a business and since we are talking a few starts, yes the business aspect of this is clearly more important.

And besides, if Trea wants to argue that he could get hurt, then why was he advocating trading Tillman and not Britton? In fact, why keep any pitching? Just trade every pitcher for bats and just sign Millwood and Guthrie type guys to short FA contracts?

[Arthur_Bryant]

And besides, if Trea wants to argue that he could get hurt, then why was he advocating trading Tillman and not Britton? In fact, why keep any pitching? Just trade every pitcher for bats and just sign Millwood and Guthrie type guys to short FA contracts?

He did advocate that for almost two years.

We finally got it buried, and now you just exhumed the corpse for another excruciating post-mortem.

Nice going, SG:D

[Sports Guy]

He did advocate that for almost two years.

We finally got it buried, and now you just exhumed the corpse for another excruciating post-mortem.

Nice going, SG:D

Well, he has said that Britton should basically be untouchable.

His take in this thread and that thought don't mesh...at least not intelligently.